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Original poster

To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

883 replies

PenguinLord · 06/04/2024 13:07

I know there was a theatre that did it last year and a thread about it- but there is a West End venue this year which will host two or three black out nights (where "all-black-identifying audiences" are invited) of the Slave Play. I had mixed feelings, but after having read a few articles on it, I actually agree with the concept- for the record I am very much white.

Spokesperson for the PM criticised black out nights saying "“The prime minister is a big supporter of the arts and he believes that the arts should be inclusive".

But let's face it, theatre experience is far from inclusive or accessible. Having 2 out of a few dozen nights will not really make a difference, nor excludes people who are not black to attend literally 80 if not more other performances. I was in theatre this week, and had a good look around. 98% of the audience were white. There were a few Asian people and 1 (one) black person- in the audience of around 300.

I suppose Id be far less likely to attend an event where I would stick out like a very sore thumb, is it really such a big deal to have two performances where people who dont usually feel theatre is an inclusive space can feel welcome, surrounded by people that belong to the same community?

OP posts:
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14
InTheShallowTheShalalalalalalalow · 07/04/2024 08:58

RazzberryGem · 07/04/2024 08:52

It's racist 🤷🏼‍♀️

What if it people were asking for separate bathrooms? Separate public transport? Separate cinema viewings? Separate supermarket opening hours?!

We wouldn't dream of introducing shows that excluded black people, yet it's celebrated when it's the reverse?!

Absolute step in the wrong direction and / or a marketing ploy.

Nobody is asking for separate bathrooms or transport. Why the hyperbole?

A majority group are being asked to go on a different night so a minority group can share an experience together.

It's not racist.

Pickledf · 07/04/2024 08:57

RazzberryGem · 07/04/2024 08:52

It's racist 🤷🏼‍♀️

What if it people were asking for separate bathrooms? Separate public transport? Separate cinema viewings? Separate supermarket opening hours?!

We wouldn't dream of introducing shows that excluded black people, yet it's celebrated when it's the reverse?!

Absolute step in the wrong direction and / or a marketing ploy.

Do you consider the separate SEN times to be the same issue?

Do you consider the quiet hours supermarkets are open for the elderly and those with additional needs to be ageist?

InTheShallowTheShalalalalalalalow · 07/04/2024 08:56

TwirlyWhirlie · 07/04/2024 08:51

There would be an absolute outcry if there was ‘White wash’ nights so why is ‘black out’ OK? This whole thing has made me really cross and it’s like black people can be racist towards white people but if white people dare to say a word against the madness then they’re the racists.

Edited

If you read the thread it's been explained multiple times.

Nobody is being racist.

A group of people are being asked to go on a different night so that a minority group can experience a play that effects them together.

Why are you cross about that?

It's not racist at all, and the "but if it was the other way..." argument is ridiculous on so many levels.

Pickledf · 07/04/2024 08:55

Newbutoldfather · 07/04/2024 08:51

@Pickledf ,

‘The level of money that passes to the Tories from many Jewish organisations would prevent him from doing that.’

That is just a version of the antisemitic trope of Jews secretly controlling the media and politics. Your level of unconscious (hopefully) antisemitism is scary.

I have never posted on Black MN (easy to check) nor would I, it is completely different to public segregation. The ‘all welcome’ is just an attempt to get around the law, it is not sincere.

As a Jewish woman who works for a business that’s (Jewish) founders plough lots of money into the tories this is an odd take.

I’ve merely posted a fact.

The fact you jumped straight from factual information to antisemitism is quite telling though

Daz57 · 07/04/2024 08:55

I think it is decisive and unnecessary also. Imagine the outcry if it was white people only!
It is all going way too far.

TwirlyWhirlie · 07/04/2024 08:54

PenguinLord · 06/04/2024 13:51

No one says you/we are guilty of historic crimes. However, racism and dicriminations happen here and now, still. Racism is not just part of history- as we can see from the horrific racial abuse of the black actress cast in the new Romeo and Juliette done by Jamie Lloyd company.
You dont see many black people in theatre audiences, I can think of a bunch of performances I saw literally no one. One of the reasont many people dont come is because they dont think it's their place. I would think twice going to a place that is not frequented by anyone who looked like me, where I would feel judged.
Does it kill you if people who are not your community are invited to an event you are not even planning to go to?

Show quote history

If they don’t think it’s ’their place’ to come to the theatre, that’s their issue. Not my issue, not the issue of any other white person. Not everything is someone else’s fault.

RazzberryGem · 07/04/2024 08:52

It's racist 🤷🏼‍♀️

What if it people were asking for separate bathrooms? Separate public transport? Separate cinema viewings? Separate supermarket opening hours?!

We wouldn't dream of introducing shows that excluded black people, yet it's celebrated when it's the reverse?!

Absolute step in the wrong direction and / or a marketing ploy.

Newbutoldfather · 07/04/2024 08:51

@Pickledf ,

‘The level of money that passes to the Tories from many Jewish organisations would prevent him from doing that.’

That is just a version of the antisemitic trope of Jews secretly controlling the media and politics. Your level of unconscious (hopefully) antisemitism is scary.

I have never posted on Black MN (easy to check) nor would I, it is completely different to public segregation. The ‘all welcome’ is just an attempt to get around the law, it is not sincere.

TwirlyWhirlie · 07/04/2024 08:51

There would be an absolute outcry if there was ‘White wash’ nights so why is ‘black out’ OK? This whole thing has made me really cross and it’s like black people can be racist towards white people but if white people dare to say a word against the madness then they’re the racists.

Pickledf · 07/04/2024 08:48

GinForBreakfast · 07/04/2024 08:45

Racism is deeply ingrained in British society. But it's not racist or ignorant to suggest that this specific proposal is not part of the solution to either that racism or the lack of diversity of theatre audiences.

It's performative at best and divisive at worst. And it detracts from the actual amazing work that people and organisations are doing to tackle racism.

Of course it’s not

But many on here aren’t doing that

Its the ‘but but but what about WHITE SLAVES’

Fucking transparent

GinForBreakfast · 07/04/2024 08:45

Racism is deeply ingrained in British society. But it's not racist or ignorant to suggest that this specific proposal is not part of the solution to either that racism or the lack of diversity of theatre audiences.

It's performative at best and divisive at worst. And it detracts from the actual amazing work that people and organisations are doing to tackle racism.

Pickledf · 07/04/2024 08:42

whatnow123 · 07/04/2024 08:38

Not the same level of backlash. You've had everyone from the PM down criticizing it. I could not imagine the PM criticizing a play about the Holocaust, that reserved two nights out of a hundred for Jewish people.

Or, as with this play, Muslims and Christians were purposely buying tickets on those night out of spite, people would be applauding it.

Show quote history

Of course he wouldn‘t

The level of money that passes to the Tories from many Jewish organisations would prevent him from doing that.

Pickledf · 07/04/2024 08:41

Newbutoldfather · 07/04/2024 08:29

@Pickledf ,

‘Of course it wouldn’t, as most Jewish people are white’

And that really helped in the Pogroms throughout history, and the Shoah.

And you accuse others of racism….

I have accurately pointed out racism in this thread and general racist attitudes

Your whataboutism is very transparent

Do you also go over to the BMN topic and start mouthing off? Because it’s exclusionary?

InTheShallowTheShalalalalalalalow · 07/04/2024 08:40

DdraigGoch · 07/04/2024 08:31

As it's open to "all-black-identifying audiences" anyone can show up and say that they "identify as black"

Oh my god what a clever and original point.

Except multiple people have said it on this thread (and none of them were funny either), and anyone can go on that night anyway, it was a request, plain and simple.

valensiwalensi · 07/04/2024 08:39

DdraigGoch · 07/04/2024 08:31

As it's open to "all-black-identifying audiences" anyone can show up and say that they "identify as black"

Yes if you want to be a massive bellend

there are lots of mixed race folk who are white passing - it would be for them.

whatnow123 · 07/04/2024 08:38

Newbutoldfather · 07/04/2024 08:19

@whatnow123 ,

I suspect it would receive the same backlash. And I, as a Jew, think the shoah should be a lesson for everyone. Not sure what the point would be of going along with fellow Jews.

And there has been plenty of art about the holocaust and I have never heard of anyone demanding a special night for Jews.

I think segregation misses the whole point of art. A good piece of art explains experience to everyone and brings everyone together in a shared understanding.

Not the same level of backlash. You've had everyone from the PM down criticizing it. I could not imagine the PM criticizing a play about the Holocaust, that reserved two nights out of a hundred for Jewish people.

Or, as with this play, Muslims and Christians were purposely buying tickets on those night out of spite, people would be applauding it.

OnHerSolidFoundations · 07/04/2024 08:31

Newcex · 06/04/2024 14:05

'I was in theatre this week, and had a good look around. 98% of the audience were white' who gives a fuck?
Lol..how about a white night where no black/Asian/anyone else is included. Imagine that

JFC 🙄

DdraigGoch · 07/04/2024 08:31

As it's open to "all-black-identifying audiences" anyone can show up and say that they "identify as black"

Newbutoldfather · 07/04/2024 08:29

@Pickledf ,

‘Of course it wouldn’t, as most Jewish people are white’

And that really helped in the Pogroms throughout history, and the Shoah.

And you accuse others of racism….

OnHerSolidFoundations · 07/04/2024 08:26

PressureLikeATickTickTick · 06/04/2024 13:41

No it's divisive and unnecessary.

A white person sat in an audience isn't going to detract from a good play.

We, as white people in 2024, are not guilty of slavery crimes. We are not responsible for the things people who existed before we were even born did.

It's segregation, pure and simple.

🙄

Pickledf · 07/04/2024 08:23

whatnow123 · 07/04/2024 08:11

I wonder if a Holocaust play that has two nights for Jewish people only, would receive such backlash. I personally could fully understand it and would think very poorly of non Jewish people purposely buying tickets out of spite.

Of course it wouldn’t, as most Jewish people are white

This is just yet another thread that really shows how racist many on MN are. It’s the entire reason the black MN topic was created in the first place

Pickledf · 07/04/2024 08:20

Thelnebriati · 07/04/2024 00:23

When a facility or service or performance is for a specific group for reasons relating to that group its really weird to complain you are excluded, say its divisive and make it about you.

Almost as if it’s exactly what the black out performances are trying to avoid.

I can almost guarantee those white posters making this all about them would have shit to say after watching this performance.

Newbutoldfather · 07/04/2024 08:19

@whatnow123 ,

I suspect it would receive the same backlash. And I, as a Jew, think the shoah should be a lesson for everyone. Not sure what the point would be of going along with fellow Jews.

And there has been plenty of art about the holocaust and I have never heard of anyone demanding a special night for Jews.

I think segregation misses the whole point of art. A good piece of art explains experience to everyone and brings everyone together in a shared understanding.

GinForBreakfast · 07/04/2024 08:16

GRex · 06/04/2024 19:32

Some British people are black, for info.

That important note aside, it is also only some of the nights. It's also not a ban, just a request. If the show chose to have specific nights for those of Caribbean black heritage only and a full ban on those nights then that would be fine too, but they are keeping it simple. Try swapping it in your mind to women's difficult stories and see how it feels then, to allow a few nights that are women only for those particularly affected to share the experience together.

Show quote history

I know some British people are black 🙄 that is exactly my point! In my example, which was about Ireland by the way, excluding “British” people would also exclude people with a shared history of being colonised. And it would exclude the 100,000s of people who are British but have Irish heritage.

My point is that you can’t look at someone’s face and know who they are and what their history and lived experience is. Not all black people are the same. Not all white people have a slave trade heritage. What about all the ethnicities, with and without slavery and historical/existing in their histories?

There is a real issue with diversity in theatre participation, but this is not addressing the root causes nor is it the solution.

And no, I wouldn’t support an all female audience for a theatre show. For one, women are not excluded from theatre audiences (apart from the bloody toilet queues) and for another, it’s really important that women’s issues are not seen as side issues, but important for men to understand and engage with as well.

CurlewKate · 07/04/2024 08:12

There are many threads on Mumsnet which illustrate clearly that people don't understand what "privilege" means. Any poster who says "What's stopping [insert name of minority or disadvantaged group] accessing [insert name of activity/institution/service]- they are open to anyone" is missing the point.