Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Black Out nights in theatre ARE important

883 replies

PenguinLord · 06/04/2024 13:07

I know there was a theatre that did it last year and a thread about it- but there is a West End venue this year which will host two or three black out nights (where "all-black-identifying audiences" are invited) of the Slave Play. I had mixed feelings, but after having read a few articles on it, I actually agree with the concept- for the record I am very much white.

Spokesperson for the PM criticised black out nights saying "“The prime minister is a big supporter of the arts and he believes that the arts should be inclusive".

But let's face it, theatre experience is far from inclusive or accessible. Having 2 out of a few dozen nights will not really make a difference, nor excludes people who are not black to attend literally 80 if not more other performances. I was in theatre this week, and had a good look around. 98% of the audience were white. There were a few Asian people and 1 (one) black person- in the audience of around 300.

I suppose Id be far less likely to attend an event where I would stick out like a very sore thumb, is it really such a big deal to have two performances where people who dont usually feel theatre is an inclusive space can feel welcome, surrounded by people that belong to the same community?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
curiositykilledthiscat · 07/04/2024 10:15

valensiwalensi · 07/04/2024 09:51

I work in theatre in London. Shrug.

its almost like things go on outside your own personal experience…..?

So which productions were these?

StormingNorman · 07/04/2024 10:09

PrincessTeaSet · 07/04/2024 09:57

That's racist. Why should a black person be affected differently by something historical that didn't affect them personally just because of the colour of their skin?

Yes I know that there is still racism today etc.

If they want to encourage more black people to attend they should look at advertising

Slavery changed the course of history for black people and they are still living with the aftermath.

Those whose ancestors were sold into slavery may feel their suffering as depicted in this play on a more personal level.

Have you ever seen that programme where celebrities trace their family tree? When they find great-grandma was put in an orphanage they feel it like a kick in the gut. They feel great-grandma’s pain and grieve for her, there are often tears. it may not be easily explainable but there is a bond to our ancestors even if we’ve never met them.

TwirlyWhirlie · 07/04/2024 10:08

PenguinLord · 07/04/2024 09:40

If those are your views then why do you dislike the label that comes with them so much? Wear the badge with pride.

You know you’re basically doing the same thing though? By saying to black people that they’re ‘more’ welcome on black out nights, what does that mean for other nights? Are they less welcome? Should they not come?

By my reckoning, black people can come on any day but they choose not to. If only 4% of the population is black then, of course you’re going to see less of them in a theatre showing.

Call me racist all you want but percentages don’t lie. Can you honestly say that at every theatre showing you’ve attended, it’s been 100% white? Or has there been a realistic representation of black people? If there’s at least 4% of the audience who are black then I see no issue.

Pickledf · 07/04/2024 10:04

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

valensiwalensi · 07/04/2024 10:04

PrincessTeaSet · 07/04/2024 09:57

That's racist. Why should a black person be affected differently by something historical that didn't affect them personally just because of the colour of their skin?

Yes I know that there is still racism today etc.

If they want to encourage more black people to attend they should look at advertising

please define racism in this context

PrincessTeaSet · 07/04/2024 09:57

StormingNorman · 06/04/2024 13:57

Generally I wouldn’t be in favour but this is a play about slavery. I’d assume black members of the audience would have a more visceral response than I would as a white person and I think it’s important that they can express those emotions without worrying about how non-black people perceive them.

That's racist. Why should a black person be affected differently by something historical that didn't affect them personally just because of the colour of their skin?

Yes I know that there is still racism today etc.

If they want to encourage more black people to attend they should look at advertising

InTheShallowTheShalalalalalalalow · 07/04/2024 09:51

valensiwalensi · 07/04/2024 09:50

That’s just called “the theatre”

🤣

valensiwalensi · 07/04/2024 09:51

curiositykilledthiscat · 07/04/2024 09:43

I’ve never heard of this before (in the U.K) and I’ve been a regular London theatre goer for pretty much two decades.

I work in theatre in London. Shrug.

its almost like things go on outside your own personal experience…..?

valensiwalensi · 07/04/2024 09:50

DrJoanAllenby · 07/04/2024 09:43

Black out nights only if there are also white out nights only.

That’s just called “the theatre”

Medschoolmum · 07/04/2024 09:43

curiositykilledthiscat · 07/04/2024 09:24

The biggest problem for me is there’s no reported demand or appetite for it. But then, as I said last night, it’s really only a P.R thing to get bums on seats for ALL performances.

Edited

If there's no demand or appetite for it, then why do you think it would be effective as a means of getting bums on seats?

If it's a marketing ploy to get bums on seats, presumably that means that the theatre believes that there will be an appetite for it.

If nobody is interested, then the theatre will be empty and the event will flop.

DrJoanAllenby · 07/04/2024 09:43

Black out nights only if there are also white out nights only.

curiositykilledthiscat · 07/04/2024 09:43

valensiwalensi · 07/04/2024 09:25

This isn’t new though. Been going on for years and always been successful when they do.

I’ve never heard of this before (in the U.K) and I’ve been a regular London theatre goer for pretty much two decades.

PenguinLord · 07/04/2024 09:40

TwirlyWhirlie · 07/04/2024 09:10

Did you just call me a racist?

If those are your views then why do you dislike the label that comes with them so much? Wear the badge with pride.

OP posts:
PenguinLord · 07/04/2024 09:38

curiositykilledthiscat · 07/04/2024 09:24

The biggest problem for me is there’s no reported demand or appetite for it. But then, as I said last night, it’s really only a P.R thing to get bums on seats for ALL performances.

Edited

Out of curiosity- how do you know there is no demand for it?
From what I have read similar events have been successful in the past.

If it was just a PR stunt, then I guess time will show if in this case it will get people to see the play to see what the fuss is all about, or if people decide to avoid the play altogether because of the controversy. Maybe they thought Kit Harrington in one of the main roles is not gonna be enough 😎

OP posts:
InTheShallowTheShalalalalalalalow · 07/04/2024 09:27

TwirlyWhirlie · 07/04/2024 09:09

I’ve explained in the second half of my post why I feel cross so won’t be explaining again.

Because you feel as though black people asking for something from white people is racist?

Have a little think about why that bothers you so much.

valensiwalensi · 07/04/2024 09:25

curiositykilledthiscat · 07/04/2024 09:24

The biggest problem for me is there’s no reported demand or appetite for it. But then, as I said last night, it’s really only a P.R thing to get bums on seats for ALL performances.

Edited

This isn’t new though. Been going on for years and always been successful when they do.

curiositykilledthiscat · 07/04/2024 09:24

PenguinLord · 07/04/2024 09:05

But no one asks any of those things and no one is excluded. I suppose this is the biggest problem of this idea- most people can't read and project the weirdest crap to discredit it, without even reading what is going on.

The biggest problem for me is there’s no reported demand or appetite for it. But then, as I said last night, it’s really only a P.R thing to get bums on seats for ALL performances.

StormingNorman · 07/04/2024 09:20

I lose nothing from these black out nights. I don’t feel excluded or discriminated against.

I feel sad that they are needed because it is indicative that some black people still feel oppressed in 2024. We don’t have white out nights because it would never occur to the default white person to monitor their emotions for the benefit of anyone else in the theatre.

if some black people feel they can experience the play differently in an audience with a shared history and legacy, and perhaps even heal a little, let them have that moment.

I think it’s a huge step towards multiculturalism to acknowledge our differences and treat them sympathetically.

valensiwalensi · 07/04/2024 09:11

TwirlyWhirlie · 07/04/2024 09:10

Did you just call me a racist?

Did she stutter

TwirlyWhirlie · 07/04/2024 09:10

PenguinLord · 07/04/2024 09:09

Thank you for illustrating why racism still exists- it's the discriminated people problem after all if they don't enjoy being discriminated against!

Did you just call me a racist?

TwirlyWhirlie · 07/04/2024 09:09

InTheShallowTheShalalalalalalalow · 07/04/2024 08:56

If you read the thread it's been explained multiple times.

Nobody is being racist.

A group of people are being asked to go on a different night so that a minority group can experience a play that effects them together.

Why are you cross about that?

It's not racist at all, and the "but if it was the other way..." argument is ridiculous on so many levels.

I’ve explained in the second half of my post why I feel cross so won’t be explaining again.

PenguinLord · 07/04/2024 09:09

TwirlyWhirlie · 07/04/2024 08:54

If they don’t think it’s ’their place’ to come to the theatre, that’s their issue. Not my issue, not the issue of any other white person. Not everything is someone else’s fault.

Thank you for illustrating why racism still exists- it's the discriminated people problem after all if they don't enjoy being discriminated against!

OP posts:
PenguinLord · 07/04/2024 09:05

RazzberryGem · 07/04/2024 08:52

It's racist 🤷🏼‍♀️

What if it people were asking for separate bathrooms? Separate public transport? Separate cinema viewings? Separate supermarket opening hours?!

We wouldn't dream of introducing shows that excluded black people, yet it's celebrated when it's the reverse?!

Absolute step in the wrong direction and / or a marketing ploy.

But no one asks any of those things and no one is excluded. I suppose this is the biggest problem of this idea- most people can't read and project the weirdest crap to discredit it, without even reading what is going on.

OP posts:
PenguinLord · 07/04/2024 09:03

Frumpyfrau · 07/04/2024 03:07

And, when did this idea become entrenched that ‘safe spaces’ are always needed for art? Art can provoke, stimulate, even strongly repulse. It has never been only about beauty or comfort. If you are forced to participate without consent, that’s one thing. If you choose to buy a ticket and attend, that’s another- particularly today when you can google and read reviews or even spoilers before you go.

It's an interesting point and I was thinking about it. Art most definitely HAS been also about just beauty and comfort and entertainment. Do you think Monet painted a bunch of garden paintings to disgust people?
Art does not have just one purpose. Sometimes it's for entertainment only, sometimes it needs to shock, sometimes it's meant to make you think without shocking, sometimes it's as you say to repulse. Sometimes to do a bit of everything.
I dont think the safe space means to sanitise the actual art in this case. The content of the play does not look like a 'safe' one. It's about getting people to experience it being surrounded by other people who may have gone through the same experience.

A while ago I went to see the same play twice. One was a mid week evening performance and the other a Saturday matinee. The audience was made up of very different demographics because of whatever reason.

The audience reaction was so different on both nights and I enjoyed the vivid reaction on the first night, but the second time it felt kind of dead, the jokes didnt make many people laugh.

What one of the articles I linked mentioned is that audiences react differently, so the same play watched by a mostly black audience will give the audience an opportunity to interact with this play in a different way than if they were lets say one of 5 black people in an all white audience. This is what in this case is a 'safe' space.

OP posts:
tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 07/04/2024 09:00

Firstly, white people aren't actually being excluded. They can visit im any night including (I think I have these numbers right) the 3 out of 80 which have Ben suggested as nights for a non white audience.

To experience a play about an incredibly important part of their history. The impacts of which we still see today.

This is not at all comparable to racial segregation.

Also, no one has yet been able to say exactly how white people are being disadvantaged by this polite request?

Feels to me like good old fashioned not wanting black people to have something we can't. Confused