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to think that this is a really weird premise for a novel? (Lionel Shriver)

115 replies

stressedout1994 · 06/04/2024 13:06

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mania-lionel-shriver-review-kd35wrtn5

I think that Lionel Shriver used to write really interesting and thoughtful novels, but that her involvement in 'culture war' stuff has made her a bit myopic and odd. The premise of this novel is that there is a world where it's considered 'discriminatory' to call people stupid, or to say that some people are more intellectually gifted than others, and she claims that this is "a millimetre" away from where we are now. I certainly think that some elements of cultural life are becoming a bit more low-brow, but it seems soooooo overblown and hysterical to pretend that we have a culture that valorises stupidity.

I am just a bit suspicious of people who honk on about other people being inherently more gifted than others, and how this is a special and important distinction. I sometimes think this sort of thing is borderline eugenics-y.

Interested to hear what others think!

Mania by Lionel Shriver review — equal rights for stupid people!

A cancelled college teacher battles the anti-thought police in this viciously funny satirical novel

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mania-lionel-shriver-review-kd35wrtn5

OP posts:
Circe7 · 06/04/2024 14:11

Are you not sort of making her point for her though? You’re saying essentially that it’s offensive to talk about some people being more intelligent than others. She’s (presumably) imagining a world where differences in intellect can’t be acknowledged and what the effect of that might be. It isn’t a massive stretch in a world where the existence of sex is denied that the existence of other qualities like intellect might be denied. I think it’s an interesting premise and is culturally relevant. That said I haven’t read much of her recent work so maybe she’s gone downhill.

I don’t think you have to agree with someone’s politics to get something from their work particularly in the context of dystopian fiction. Part of the reason politics and culture are so polarised is probably that people only expose themselves to content that they already agree with.

RJnomore1 · 06/04/2024 14:11

That’s quite some short story

Abhannmor · 06/04/2024 14:09

pootlin · 06/04/2024 13:44

What offensive bile? Genuine question, I don’t know much about her.

Described the Irish as ' a scummy potato residue'. People worried about a hard border in Ireland or a return of the Troubles are really all liars making veiled threats to stop Brexit.

So now you know who to blame if Brexit is less than wonderful.

WearyAuldWumman · 06/04/2024 14:01

Nicelynicelyjohnson · 06/04/2024 13:19

I can't read the article but I have found in recent years that LS seems to just say stuff to try to be shocking.
I do have a soft spot for her novels though, so I did click on this thread with interest.

I can't read the article either. The one paragraph I could see suggests to me that it's an expanded version of Kurt Vonnegut's short story: "Harrison Bergeron". I first read it in the '70s, at secondary school.

"THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren't only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th, and 213th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General.

Some things about living still weren't quite right, though. April for instance, still drove people crazy by not being springtime. And it was in that clammy month that the H-G men took George and Hazel Bergeron's fourteenyear-old son, Harrison, away.

It was tragic, all right, but George and Hazel couldn't think about it very hard. Hazel had a perfectly average intelligence, which meant she couldn't think about anything except in short bursts. And George, while his intelligence was way above normal, had a little mental handicap radio in his ear. He was required by law to wear it at all times. It was tuned to a government transmitter. Every twenty seconds or so, the transmitter would send out some sharp noise to keep people like George from taking unfair advantage of their brains."

Link to the full short story: https://ia803002.us.archive.org/25/items/HarrisonBergeron/Harrison%20Bergeron.pdf

https://ia803002.us.archive.org/25/items/HarrisonBergeron/Harrison%20Bergeron.pdf

Abhannmor · 06/04/2024 14:00

That's Lionel. At heart she is a Randroid. Thinks of herself and her ilk as genius being held back by tiresome mediocrities like us - the dreaded Collective.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 06/04/2024 13:54

I believe she's said some controversial things about immigration. That doesn't mean she's wrong about everything though.

pootlin · 06/04/2024 13:44

neverbeenskiing · 06/04/2024 13:41

We Need to Talk About Kevin was excellent, but I won't be buying anything new from LS. I don't know if she actually believes the offensive bile she comes out with nowadays or whether she is just courting controversy to cash in on the culture wars, but it's tedious and morally repugnant either way.

What offensive bile? Genuine question, I don’t know much about her.

neverbeenskiing · 06/04/2024 13:41

We Need to Talk About Kevin was excellent, but I won't be buying anything new from LS. I don't know if she actually believes the offensive bile she comes out with nowadays or whether she is just courting controversy to cash in on the culture wars, but it's tedious and morally repugnant either way.

Supersimkin2 · 06/04/2024 13:34

She’s a genius at catching an idea in the zeitgeist and spinning it out in different futures.

Thelnebriati · 06/04/2024 13:31

If you can't read an article, put the URL into the search bar of Archive Today followed by the wildcard symbol (the star above the 8 on a keyboard)

to think that this is a really weird premise for a novel? (Lionel Shriver)
FloatyBoaty · 06/04/2024 13:31

She’s become the Katie Hopkins of literature.

We Need To Talk About Kevin was smart and chilling.

I have no time for her these days.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 06/04/2024 13:30

She's not trying to say that we are a millimetre away from lauding stupidity or banning anyone for saying some people are less intelligent than others. It's a thinly-veiled criticism of the fact that people are censoredand cancelled for saying that men can't be women. I'm pretty sure I read in an interview with her that she said the trans debate is the closest thing to what she's depicting in the book.

Cbeebiesisdifferentonasaturday · 06/04/2024 13:24

I remember reading ‘We need to talk a lot Kevin’ when pretty young (pre dc) and being unsure whether to have chindre. The book was excellent

SleepingStandingUp · 06/04/2024 13:21

Behind a paywall so can't comment. But surely tons of authors write stuff that's beyond the realms of where we are now just to make a point and open up discussion. It doesn't mean they agree that all brains are equal or that all brains aren't equal. It's a story. It's a discussion

Nicelynicelyjohnson · 06/04/2024 13:19

I can't read the article but I have found in recent years that LS seems to just say stuff to try to be shocking.
I do have a soft spot for her novels though, so I did click on this thread with interest.

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