“Angling for help” parental sharing of nightfeeds

Sunflower468 · 2024-04-06T03:05:46+00:00

I’m pissed right now. Before bedtime, when cuddling our 5 month old I jokingly said “And it would be nice if you give mummy some sleep tonight”. As we got into bed, I said to my husband “She’s not given me much chance for a good night sleep recently” about our daughter. This was met with my husband responding “I get the message” and when I asked what he meant he replied “You’ve been angling for it, just say you want me to do a night with her”. His tone was very moody. For context, I’m on MAT leave and my husband works full time. Normally we both work full time and earn well to contribute towards our living. I do all of the housework and have the children at the minute (3yo and baby). He often works late and weekends (over his contracted hours) which I support him to do. I told him to shove his “help” if that’s how he’s going to respond to me expressing that I’m tired. It’s really upset me to say I’m “angling for help” rather than just WANT to help out. I didn’t even want him to do the night, I wanted to just express my feelings to my husband and it was met with him sounding irritated rather than supportive. He has since asked me if he can take our daughter downstairs for the night….I’ve said no. I don’t want his help if he thinks I’m nagging for it and responds acting frustrated to me expressing my feelings. He’s got angry that I’ve rejected his help. AIBU?

crumblingschools · 07/04/2024 11:56

@Sunflower468 glad you have had a chat, but please ensure language and mindset is changed, he is not helping you. I bet he doesn’t see you as helping him with the housework and night feeds, he just sees that as something you do as a member of the household and a parent.

bellezarara · 07/04/2024 08:31

Louoby · 06/04/2024 05:52

I feel your frustration!! I had a baby in 2020 and my partner didn't once get up, even though I asked and asked. He just didn't. I did it all. Found out was pregnant when baby was 7 months old, so I then have a 16 month age gap and when my younger baby arrived, he still don't get up. Not only was I up multiple times feeding baby, my 17 month old also needed someone in the night regularly, and also woke at 5am.
So at this point, I'm in and out of bed like a yo-yo and then up at 5 with my toddler. I will never forget or forgive him for how he didn't help. For context, he worked and I was on mat leave but one early morning was all I needed. I went back to work when our youngest was 8 months old. He used to say he couldn't get up all night or early when he was working as it would make him too tired so I hoped when I went back to work, we would share it as obviously I was working too. I went back 4 full days. He still never once helped. I often went to work with around 2 hours sleep a night. No matter what I said, the arguments we had, he wouldn't do it. Like I said... it will never be forgotten 😏
If he's offering, take it. Let him be moody and at least he may appreciate what it's like being woken up hourly etc x

What a cunt. How have you not divorced him? Has he got away with it?

LadyEloise1 · 07/04/2024 08:29

Delighted you could sit down and communicate @Sunflower468 and hoping things will get better for you.

Cat2024 · 06/04/2024 17:55

That’s great, op. Hopefully, posting on Mumsnet helped a little?

As an aside, I have been on here since my DC were born 10 years ago and there are always a mixture of helpful and erm, not so helpful replies but I have still found it useful overall. Of course, AIBU is harsher than other sections.

Really pleased for you. Hope you have a great evening/weekend! 😊

Original poster

Sunflower468 · 06/04/2024 15:35

So as a final update - we both sat down and talked it through.

I apologised for making the comments and explained whilst I was happy to do night feeds - I would appreciate some reassurance and appreciation. I recognised that I was feeling unseen for all of my efforts - and that I needed to articulate this to my husband in a clearer way.

I also apologised for not accepting his help at the time that he offered it and that I was being stubborn.

He apologised for snapping at me and being moody at the time of our argument and for taking my comments personally. He recognised that he has not been keeping his part of the housework but explained that sometimes he’s unsure of how to help because I seem to always have the housework in order. So we agreed that rather than me assuming my husband wasn’t going to do housework and him assuming I was going to do it all - we’d both agree certain jobs we’d take responsibility for in the week.

I think last night was a moment of weakness on my part - but we have been able to resolve it with healthy communication and a good cuddle ❤️

OP posts:

Farahfawsett · 06/04/2024 13:18

It does sound like there's a lack of communication here, but the main issue I see here is the use of the word "help".

When referring to raising your children, start using the term "actively parent" instead of help.

I.e. "I need you to actively parent the toddler right now so I can do XYZ"

"I'm feeding the baby now, so you need to actively parent the other two children."

Do not ask him to "help" you with parenting tasks. It's 50% his responsibility, by parenting he is simply doing his job, it is not a help to you.

Explain that you feel he has deferred the role of parenting to you and that you need to redefine his role as a 50/50 parent and that your change in your use of language will encourage him to recognise you are not asking him to help you with anything, you are simply asking him to do his share.

You shouldn't HAVE to ask him to actively parent, he should be using his initiative to do that, so if you are having to ask him to actively parent, he's already let himself, you and the kids down and he needs to step up.

Hopefully, over time, he will begin to be a hands-on parent and you won't have to ask him to engage. If he doesn't then you know you have a dud and you can make plans to leave.

Marblessolveeverything · 06/04/2024 12:56

Fully understand you are working off a very tired base.

But, there is an issue - communication. I am reading this as the father hasn't done much but is that the case or have you recently changed from breast feeding?

It is really challenging to not be frustrated when the obvious to you isn't acknowledged or worked on together. From the other side there can be fear offering "help" implies lack of confidence in your parenting. And I am sorry but the comment to the baby directed to your partner would make my teeth itch, it is passive aggressive and does not help. You shouldn't ask you should be able to discuss a fair plan to support ye both.

You both need to communicate better because the next few years are going to throw so many situations that need ye working off the same page.

May I suggest you both discuss this issue first. But I highly recommend having discussions about when baby is sick who will take leave, who will attend appointments, who will sort the bag for childminder etc. all of these are issues that can become so frustrating.

TinkerTiger · 06/04/2024 12:46

VestibuleVirgin · 06/04/2024 07:00

Pissed or pissed off? Makes a difference to the story

Give over. This faux confusion isn't cute

DiamondArtists · 06/04/2024 11:56

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

CrispieCake · 06/04/2024 11:34

Men get away with behaving like this not because some women "choose badly" but because society is fucked and in many cases women are the fall guys left to pick up the pieces. Many men internalise the message that when the going gets tough, it's fine for them to hide under the table and leave it to someone else. Mummy/female partner will sort it.

Original poster

Sunflower468 · 06/04/2024 11:12

AgileMentor · 06/04/2024 10:48

No I don’t because I chose better but in general he isn’t a mind reader so if I did want him to do something I would communicate that. We’ve been together since late teens and are now in our 30s so can’t be doing much wrong.

Show quote history

You can stop indirectly being mean to me.
Saying you “chose better” is not helpful to anyone. If anything it shows you think yourself as better than others.

If you’re not going to contribute anything other than nastiness then you can scroll on.
Strange that you didn’t reply to my previous response and just posted this.
Being mean to other women dousnt make you a better one.

OP posts:

FineWordsButterNoParsnips · 06/04/2024 11:00

A man performing bare minimum tasks relating to a kid he chose to create is not ‘helping’
Using that word means you (general ‘you’) view parenting/household drudgery as the woman’s role and males need asked to help. Any decent man would be fully functional and actively parent and do housework as standard. Don’t settle for any less than this basic, bare minimum.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 06/04/2024 10:54

On the actual OP, I get that you were just tired and not angling, plus even if you were he should realise it’s tiredness on your part. But equally you should accept the offer as you need sleep!

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 06/04/2024 10:53

Sunflower468 · 06/04/2024 07:45

This sounds very similar to me and I feel your frustration too.
I managed to get some sleep last night and reflect a little and I will speak to him - I think at the time it just felt very personal when we should both be a team.

Show quote history

My ex was like this and it was a big part of why we ended up divorced. My first was very unwell as a baby and sometimes did sleep at all throughout the night.

I couldn’t forgive and forget either.

I think women find selflessness a very attractive quality in a man, because it indicates he will share this duties when it comes to it.

AgileMentor · 06/04/2024 10:48

crumblingschools · 06/04/2024 10:33

@AgileMentor you have to ask your partner to be a parent?

No I don’t because I chose better but in general he isn’t a mind reader so if I did want him to do something I would communicate that. We’ve been together since late teens and are now in our 30s so can’t be doing much wrong.

Notsureaboutittoday · 06/04/2024 10:39

Louoby · 06/04/2024 05:52

I feel your frustration!! I had a baby in 2020 and my partner didn't once get up, even though I asked and asked. He just didn't. I did it all. Found out was pregnant when baby was 7 months old, so I then have a 16 month age gap and when my younger baby arrived, he still don't get up. Not only was I up multiple times feeding baby, my 17 month old also needed someone in the night regularly, and also woke at 5am.
So at this point, I'm in and out of bed like a yo-yo and then up at 5 with my toddler. I will never forget or forgive him for how he didn't help. For context, he worked and I was on mat leave but one early morning was all I needed. I went back to work when our youngest was 8 months old. He used to say he couldn't get up all night or early when he was working as it would make him too tired so I hoped when I went back to work, we would share it as obviously I was working too. I went back 4 full days. He still never once helped. I often went to work with around 2 hours sleep a night. No matter what I said, the arguments we had, he wouldn't do it. Like I said... it will never be forgotten 😏
If he's offering, take it. Let him be moody and at least he may appreciate what it's like being woken up hourly etc x

Are you still with him?!

CrispieCake · 06/04/2024 10:35

Sometimes women don't want to ask, they just want those around them to behave like moderately considerate and thoughtful human beings.

Why should we have to ask our partners to be decent people? Why can't they do this without asking?

Dancingontheedge · 06/04/2024 10:33

I breastfed mine, but after feeding, they always needed a nappy change.
My husband would deal with that, and change bedding if necessary. Or wash the baby if a poonami had occurred in the middle of the night.
He was also happy to make me a drink. Because that’s what a partner is, someone who shares the load.
You have nothing to apologise for, but I do think you both need to talk about sharing the load. And no, working shouldn’t be his sole contribution.

crumblingschools · 06/04/2024 10:33

@AgileMentor you have to ask your partner to be a parent?

Original poster

Sunflower468 · 06/04/2024 10:24

AgileMentor · 06/04/2024 10:15

And as a grown woman if she’s struggling she should be able to say can you do this night. He’s working all hours she can sleep when baby sleeps. If I need my partner to do something I ask him I don’t come on mumsnet and ask the man hating brigade what ever I should do.

Show quote history

Thanks for the nastiness.

I didn’t want him to do the night. I said the comment about being tired to make him aware as he sleeps through everything and didn’t know I’d had some bad nights.

I cannot sleep when the baby sleeps. I have a toddler to care for. But you’ve made an assumption.
I made the post because I’m quite clearly struggling and felt that between my frustration and tiredness that perhaps my perception of the situation was biased and I wanted some open and empathetic conversation with other mums - as none of my friends or close family have young children so I have no one to speak to about it.

But sure, you go on the attack and be nasty.

OP posts:

AgileMentor · 06/04/2024 10:15

Naunet · 06/04/2024 08:51

Does he ask her every night to do all the night wakings then? No he doesn’t, because he knows she has a brain in her nut and knows her baby needs care, so why does he have to be asked? Do you think men are too thick to understand their baby also needs parenting at night? She shouldn’t need to ask, he’s a grown fucking man who should know his wife needs sleep too.

Show quote history

And as a grown woman if she’s struggling she should be able to say can you do this night. He’s working all hours she can sleep when baby sleeps. If I need my partner to do something I ask him I don’t come on mumsnet and ask the man hating brigade what ever I should do.

Naunet · 06/04/2024 08:53

VestibuleVirgin · 06/04/2024 08:36

Of course I didn't need to ask!
Would my point be more obvious to you if the question was phrased as;
'Why are you using a term which generally means something different in the UK than it does in America, and which can change the context of a sentence if used incorrectly?'

Show quote history

'Why are you using a term which generally means something different in the UK than it does in America, and which can change the context of a sentence if used incorrectly?‘

Yes, god forbid the world doesn’t revolve around America. We’ll change the way we use our language instantly.

LadyEloise1 · 06/04/2024 08:52

Louoby · 06/04/2024 05:52

I feel your frustration!! I had a baby in 2020 and my partner didn't once get up, even though I asked and asked. He just didn't. I did it all. Found out was pregnant when baby was 7 months old, so I then have a 16 month age gap and when my younger baby arrived, he still don't get up. Not only was I up multiple times feeding baby, my 17 month old also needed someone in the night regularly, and also woke at 5am.
So at this point, I'm in and out of bed like a yo-yo and then up at 5 with my toddler. I will never forget or forgive him for how he didn't help. For context, he worked and I was on mat leave but one early morning was all I needed. I went back to work when our youngest was 8 months old. He used to say he couldn't get up all night or early when he was working as it would make him too tired so I hoped when I went back to work, we would share it as obviously I was working too. I went back 4 full days. He still never once helped. I often went to work with around 2 hours sleep a night. No matter what I said, the arguments we had, he wouldn't do it. Like I said... it will never be forgotten 😏
If he's offering, take it. Let him be moody and at least he may appreciate what it's like being woken up hourly etc x

OMG.
The selfishness.
I'm gobsmacked.
When I was on maternity leave I did Sunday to Thursday night and DH did Friday and Saturday night.

Naunet · 06/04/2024 08:51

AgileMentor · 06/04/2024 08:01

Communication is key. If you want him to do a night ask him.

Does he ask her every night to do all the night wakings then? No he doesn’t, because he knows she has a brain in her nut and knows her baby needs care, so why does he have to be asked? Do you think men are too thick to understand their baby also needs parenting at night? She shouldn’t need to ask, he’s a grown fucking man who should know his wife needs sleep too.

supertatos · 06/04/2024 08:48

Sunflower468 · 06/04/2024 08:01

Thanks for your honest reply.

When I’ve reflected this morning I’ve realised that although I wasn’t asking for help with the baby - I was looking for was a bit of recognition/reassurance and I should have just asked for this at the time.

Show quote history

Yes sometimes I need my husband to spell out exactly what it is he wants from me. It's just a difference in communication style and you're tired so cut yourself some slack - doing a great job mama