AIBU to feel disheartened by the lack of support and the presence of a crab bucket mentality among some women on here?

I think Mumsnet and AIBU in particular is great at getting genuine opinions and perspectives.
The responses when you pose a scenario will not always be in line with your own views, that’s the whole point.
I agree that sometimes people respond more harshly than is perhaps warranted. But sometimes a harsh dose of reality is what people need.
If you just want people to agree with you, there’s no point in posting. Speak to friends or family instead, and tell them you are looking for comfort, not advice.

No YANBU.

I’ve been quite shocked by the levels of aggression and unkindness. I think the typical MN poster comes on here to bash others a bit to release tension of their own. This either takes the form of denigrating the OP or throwing themselves so blindly in fierce support that anyone with a slightly nuanced viewpoint has to be torn to shreds. The language is often foul, the reasoning overly simplistic and reductionist. Moderated viewpoints need not apply.

So true @Goldenbear. I’ve lived in Sussex my whole life (apart from a short time living in London). All my family and friends are here. My parents and most of my grandparents were from Sussex. My husband is local too so all his family and friends are here. It’s where my roots are.

Sure, if I was completely destitute perhaps I would have to consider moving somewhere cheaper but I will do everything I can to avoid that as I simply don’t want to move somewhere where I don’t know anyone and the landscape is unfamiliar. I don’t think that makes me a bad person 🤷🏼‍♀️

I’m nowhere near a six figure salary and never will be!

Not a supportive forum at all. I have been shocked at the amount of comments showing a complete lack of empathy. I get sometimes people just need a reality check and it needs to be put bluntly but I see a lot of comments that are just nasty, judgemental and ignorant for no reason. Not just women either, there are men posting negative things.

I think this SE ‘6 figure salary’ is such a hackneyed characterisation on MN now, that nobody from the SE can complain at all and it just isn’t the case that a majority of people from the SE are on 6 figure salaries. The suggestion is always to move away from the streets that are paved with Gold, often said by people who aren’t from the SE. A poster on another thread about birthrates and UK regions was making this very point as a Northerner but correspondingly said they don’t want any ‘incomers’. They also like many people who post like this express their love for the North and desire to be where they grew up, not wanting to be priced out of their region but then dismiss those from the south east who have a similar desire to live in the area they grew up in and have family in. You can move to a cheaper area which we did (DH and I) as we were born in North and South West London so Londoners and grew up there but we didn’t want to move out of the southeast due to family and familiar links. Where we live now has become expensive but I can understand why people don’t just want to leave their roots, it is just a strong a feeling as people who are from Cornwall or parts of the North, why is it different for people from the south east?

That's very 'know your place' though isn't it? There are times when I really feel rage, I don't think I should have to disguise it. And it's not 'speaking to people like trash', it's raw anger.

You’ve got a space that a big portion enjoy sharing views and ideas respectfully, with support and encouragement.

And another whopping portion that like to talk like they walk the walk and know it all “happily” hiding behind their keyboard.

It’s a shame because the first idea you mention is what a lot of people need.

I haven’t read the whole thread but this is something I have thought about myself but the other way around and I came to the conclusion that people use the boards incorrectly at times particularly AIBU as it has the most traffic. The title of the board in itself is basically asking for a difference of opinion and I’ve lost count of threads I’ve closed in exasperation due to the OP asking the question then getting really arsey, accusing people of being ‘rude’ etc when someone takes the time out to give their opinion but it’s not what they want to hear. Then quoting and giving ‘flowers’ etc to anyone who agrees with them. They should just create a board called ‘Can everyone agree with me’ 😂

Tbh there's a victim mentality that some fall into and are generally fragile enough emotionally not to receive tough love or rather 'cutting through the BS' well from other women and perceive it as dragging them down or being cruel, not a motivational bit of wisdom that saves them pain if they heeded

I used to be like that and a few MN posts and real life experiences taught me to value that higher than people who tell me what I want to hear or tell me things how I don't feel angry in response, sometimes I do feel angry how things are said 😂

I remember how some threads stung like a bitch... and I needed the nethuns approach for a while, but

Once you remember nobody knows you personally and what they respond to is the picture you build and info you give and type posts expecting to be called out for something you've overlooked if posting in AIBU ... I quite appreciate it here now

Different topics have different types of people on ofc and emotionally fragile days aren't ones for me to join in or post in AIBU

The be nice to me, women must stick together and build each other up thing doesn't really have any merit if people just want validation for stupidity ... like what's the point in telling each other we're doing just fine if we're not? That's not actually that kind is it? Cheerleading what will obviously get someone nowhere?

If you avoid AIBU the rest of Mumsnet isn't toxic.

I was wondering about crab bucket!

It doesn't have to be 'Kim-By-Ya', it just has to be decent and not speaking to people like trash. You can disagree with someone without being hateful.

almost. “She reached down and picked a crab out of a bucket. As it came up it turned out that three more were hanging on to it. ‘A crab necklace?’ giggled Juliet. ‘Oh, that’s crabs for you,’ said Verity, disentangling the ones who had hitched a ride. ‘Thick as planks, the lot of them. That’s why you can keep them in a bucket without a lid. Any that tries to get out gets pulled back. Yes, as thick as planks.’ Verity held the crab over an ominously bubbling cauldron. ‘Shall I cook it for you now?’ ‘No!’ said Glenda, much louder than she had intended. ‘Are you okay, dear?’ Verity enquired. ‘You look a bit ill.’ ‘I’m fine. Fine. Just a touch of a sore throat, that’s all.’ Crab bucket, she thought. I thought Pepe was talking nonsense. ‘Erm, can you just truss it up for us? It’s going to be a long night.’ ‘Right you are,’ said Miss Pushpram, expertly wrapping the unresisting crab in twine. ‘You know what to do, that’s certain. Lovely crabs, these, real good eating. But thick as planks.’ Crab bucket, thought Glenda as they hurried towards the Night Kitchen. That’s how it works. People from the Sisters disapproving when a girl takes the trolley bus. That’s crab bucket. Practically everything my mum ever told me, that’s crab bucket. Practically everything I’ve ever told Juliet, that’s crab bucket, too. Maybe it’s just another word for the Shove. It’s so nice and warm on the inside that you forget that there’s an outside. The worst of it is, the crab that mostly keeps you down is you . . . The realization had her mind on fire.”

— Unseen Academicals: (Discworld Novel 37) by Terry Pratchett
https://amzn.eu/irjDvmH

But in general, it isn't people who've struggled all their lives giving advice.

It's mostly people who struggled for a bit but are now living very well and being dismissive because they've forgotten how shit it really was and are now preening that they worked hard and sacrificed and it's just fine not to have a night out or pair of new shoes for years because they did it and kids don't notice if all their clothes and toys are secondhand. The bootstraps/Yorkshireman sketch posters.

And a lot of others who have struggled and do still, who aren't giving advice but post "my God I'd love to have £50 disposable income per month after all the bills, I'd live like a King, you're so unreasonable". The Life of Brian prisoner posters - "you lucky bastard, what I wouldn't give to be spat at in the face, years I spent dreaming about being spat at in the face".

If a poster is complaining about having to choose between a spa day and their kids tennis lesson, that's daft. But usually, it's people complaining that despite having good jobs and working hard, they can't buy a house or if they did, they are struggling to make ends meet.

This place is often toxic.

I often wonder how frequently are happy, well adjusted and fulfilled people, actually using mumsnet as a platform for conversation? Honestly, it would be my guess that a lot of mumsnet users are not this cohort. So your sample here is very skewed.

I often suspect that many of the sorts of posts that you describe are not from women.

Your 'not putting the boot in' might look and feel very different to the person on the other end of it.

I'm not saying ignore suffering or make it invisible. I'm saying people can all suffer and one person's suffering can be as bad to that person as another's, even if you subjectively grade them differently.

Looking into crab mentality I see it played out across threads on here all the time. And zero sum mentality.

I think some people come here just looking for a fight or to join a fight that's already started and gang up to let off steam in their own lives / situations where they can't be as assertive (or maybe they can!). It doesn't reflect well on those people at all because often it's one point they hang their objections on and they don't look at the full picture of what they're being told. They don't think outside the box. It's limited and it's boring.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

Crab mentality, also known as crab theory,[1][2] crabs in a bucket[a] mentality, or the crab-bucket effect, is a way of thinking usually described by the phrase "if I can't have it, neither can you".[3]
The metaphor is derived from anecdotal claims about the behavior of crabs when they are trapped in a bucket: while any one crab can easily start to climb out,[4] it will nonetheless be pulled back in by the others, ensuring the group's collective demise.[5][6][7]
The analogous theory in human behavior is that members of a group will attempt to reduce the self-confidence of any member who achieves success beyond others, out of envy, jealousy, resentment, spite, conspiracy, or competitive feelings, in order to halt their progress [8][9][10][11] even though there are no benefits associated

This is a very subjective viewpoint which not everyone buys into. Ditto the sneering about kinder and softer ways of relating to others.

I first came across it in disc world book but don't know it Pratchett coined it or it already existed- means other crabs seeing you getting out of the bucket will pull you back down with them.

Similarish to I think New Zealand's Tall Poppy Syndrome.

Older phrases know your place or not for the likes of us mentality don't stive for more stuff (more frequent I think in working class areas).

Sure, life doesn't always work like that and it may be that they simply can't leave the area where they're living.

However, a truth needs to acknowledged here-if a person is struggling to afford living in, let's say SE, on a 6 figure income, and they don't wish to relocate to a more affordable area because their kids are settled in school/family/job-then those things are being prioritised over affordability. That is ok-but it should be acknowledged and the person shouldn't throw their hands up and say their hands are tied, should they?

In the end, I think those posters have to ask themselves what they expected when they posted. Did they want people, who are often on much less than 6 figures, to pat them on the back and go, "there, there?" I acknowledge that a lot of people, on varying incomes, are finding it tough at the minute and I have sympathy for that.

If someone says that they're living in a notoriously expensive part of the country and says that they're struggling to afford life-what is the solution that they want to be told to them? No one can magically make the SE affordable, can they?

So, the logical solution would be for the people to leave and move to a cheaper area that they can afford. If they won't do that, for whatever reason, then they need to look at their lifestyle and see what can be cut. Or see how they can increase their income streams.

It's common sense. If a person wants to post and just vent-they just need to say that in their OP. Otherwise-people are going to offer suggestions and it's no good getting offended when people offer perfectly common sense solutions to a problem that's presented to them.

That’s so so obvious now.

You need to read Terry pratchett 😂

Basically crabs will hang off each other dragging them back into the bucket should they ever try to leave

Not that crab salad is a step up from a bucket though