Is this going to cause a massive family rift?

I don't think he sounds depressed, but it does seem to me as though he has problems with executive function and pathological demand avoidance. He sounds like he can't get himself going, but neither can he cope with anyone else trying to get him going either. I imagine the painting was a mess because he left it all to the last minute, panicked and then tried to rush it.

I don't have a strong opinion about whether you pay him, as the incident is over as far as he's concerned imo, but I think you could help prevent this situation in future by not offering in advance to pay him for a results-based outcome, which in my experience will create an anxiety loop in his head ("I've got to do it - but I can't do it - but I've got to do it" etc). If you want to help him earn a bit of cash, I would ask him to help you with something you're taking primary responsibility for (i.e. "I have to get some work done in the garden, can you help me?") and then offer him some cash "for his time and effort" after the event. The offer of money in advance comes hand-in-hand with performance expectations, and I suspect he can't cope with that.

Work-wise, he would probably do better working for someone he knows, who will take the hard bits out for him, having put some effort into figuring out what are the hard bits (he may not know himself - it may be working unsupervised, or using the phone, or being asked to do things in a specific way when actually the end outcome is more important than the process, etc etc). The pp who was laughing at her SIL for not wanting to work "because they kept asking me to do things" has seen the same problem in action but not understood it either (tbf because her SIL may not have been able to explain it very well).

I don't think this is laziness or entitlement. He can manage socialising etc because it doesn't come with the weight of expectations. I suspect he probably has a pretty low opinion of himself and needs help, but unfortunately because your family have assumed he's depressed the help has taken the wrong form so far.

Pathological demand avoidance is generally understood as a characteristic of autism, and if he's autistic it might account for the swimming misunderstanding. If you asked me to go swimming with you, I would think you meant go with you as in go at the same time as you. I wouldn't expect you to mean I was supposed to stay in the baby pool with you and your DC, any more than he apparently did (I didn't read the thread, just your summary upthread).

I am autistic with PDA and relate to a lot in how you describe him. I expect a lot of the people I've let down over the years do too! Feel free to PM me if you think I can help.

Some reading. HTH.

I'd highly recommend you listen to the Insight - Exposing Narcissism podcasts.
Maybe start with the one called "Arrested Development" or else "Smoke and Mirrors".

Your family is hugely dysfunctional and your mother is setting your brother up to be a kind of husband for her as she ages. She is stealing his future from him and this is being enabled by others. (This does not mean his behaviour is acceptable, it isnt).
I'd go so far as to say mummy is the root cause of the issues in your family.

Depression my arse!

Reminds me of a line from the Royle Family:

”She’s got a bone disease”
”Yeah bone bloody idleness!”

Surely he caused the rift by doing a rubbish job and if your family protest at you not paying him in spite of the fact he hasn't done what you asked him they are also downplaying the fact he did a useless job. Learn from this as you should have done after the dog incident. Don't ask him to do anything in the future and just don't mention godfather to him. He can still be a fun uncle. Sounds like your parents have protected him all his life and consequently he just does as he wants.

Depression my arse!

He's having a right good old life - at everyone else's expense.

I'd have cut him off after the dog situation. That was unforgivable.

Sounds to me like you're afraid your whole family will take his side and you'll be pushed out.

Gently - you're making excuses for him again. Of course he knew what he was doing was wrong. He's a grown adult. Literally everyone knows that if they're asked to dog sit, that means they need to be with the dog. My children would know that. Does he think dogs don't need to pee for 10 hour stretches? Come on. You've been so conditioned to think of this man as a helpless child that you're not reacting appropriately to any of this.

And it was all just a misunderstanding but he ignored your calls even though you were 'calling and calling' while on your holiday?? No. He ignored you because he didn't want to stop what he was doing and tend to a creature that was completely dependent on him for its basic needs.

And you say 'he got into trouble and made up for it' (bearing in mind we are talking about a GROWN MAN not a little boy here) but... he fucking didn't?!? You literally said in your OP that he left rotting and spoiled food in your house for you to come home to.

Finally - and I speak from experience here - if you're too scared of your family's reaction to respond appropriately to him, then your relationship with your family isn't real anyway. They should care about you and your needs and your dog and your baby too. If upsetting the precious (worthless) golden boy will see you ostracised, then being in the inner circle of such people isn't something to aspire to anyway.

Posted earlier this week about my ex BIL, also a "tortured artist" with a drink problem.

He is now pushing 60 with not a single asset to his name and back at his fathers again. Hasnt had a job since I met him 30 years ago. A very talented creative artist but his mother enabled his behaviour, and then his father did after his mother died (father felt guilty at the death of the mother as it was the drink that killed her too and the father would buy it for her as she never left the house).

Frankly the fact that he has made it to this age is nothing short of miraculous, as Ex and I didnt think he would make 10 years.

Why does he still do it? Because he knows that whatever he does, his father will always look after him. He has never hit rock bottom.

But ex FIL is very ill and wont be with us long and exDH now lives in and has a legal stake in FIL's home and will not be giving ex BIL house room. He will do what should have been done years ago, sadly it will probably kill ex BIL. But given the pain and anguish and abuse he has meted out to exDH over the years, ex no longer cares.

That is your brother and his future. As long as he is enabled, he will never hit rock bottom and until people like him hit rock bottom, they will never sort themselves out.

That's infuriating - I'm so sorry.

I’ll paint the cupboard for you for £100 😜

I would invoice him for partly ruining your vacation, which was no doubt expensive and wasted your time off.

Pay him minimum wage rate for however many hours he spent on it.

You were not harsh. This is my lived experience with my spoiled DB. DP’s ruined their lifes bankrolling DB. In case he did something stupid. Once I asked DM to help with my toddlers as I was very ill and DH was working abroad. No she had to cook his tea. He literally barely worked his entire life and fucked off abroad with his inheritance to #retire# at 50

I think you should pay as he hasn't changed his pattern of behaviour and it was unrealistic to think he would plus you want him to be GF.

(It's like saying the lion ate the raw meat but he said he wouldn't)

Yep. Think again. He won’t give a shit anyway.

He’s lazy, by the way. Really fucking lazy. Not depressed.

but what do people say to the argument of “I spent X amount of hours on this”. Which he did - I have no idea how it took so long but he did spend his time on it.

Say yes but then you said you weren't going to finish it, and it's going to cost us more now to get it done.

So you're expecting us to pay you X amount
And then pay extra to get what you did removed
And then pay for what we originally wanted also.

What do you want from this thread @Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor ?

You are basically unwilling to do anything to try to deal with the issues, so just embrace and move on.

Every time I see a mad post on Mumsnet I think it can’t get worse but this one really takes the biscuit. If you want a #fun uncle# then hire a clown for a few hours. I can’t believe you can be this wet. No he can’t be arsed to do the wardrobe job tell him you have decided he probably would be the same as a godfather. He bloody needs to learn some consequences the spoilt brat.

I wouldn't pay him anything. He doesn't sound that depressed and even if he is, it's no excuse for lying.

Well quite, you could buy a new wardrobe for that. My painter charges £250 for a whole room!

He is playing you all and you’re all fawning over the poor man child.
If a relative had abandoned my dog and shown dreadful cruelty in the way your brother had I would have been incandescent with rage and it would have been the end of the relationship. Sounds more like a narcissistic sociopath

Sorry if someone has asked this already, but why is he charging you £300 to paint a wardrobe for his niece, if he's such a great uncle?

My uncle did loads of DIY for my parents when I was growing up, and never asked for a penny. We did stuff for him, like dog/babysitting for free. That's what families do - not charge each other and then do a shit job.

Don't let it get to the point where it causes problems between you and your husband.

Ah OP it sucks but you’ve been trained that little x always deserves another chance and the family game is that nothing is really his fault. But surely even you can see that “being totally irresponsible and selfish” isn’t an excuse!!! It’s the opposite. Sorry you’re having to have these realisations about your brother but also about the rest of the family. How would your mum react for example if you were supposed to be doing something for your brother but then messed up really badly before demanding payment? I bet it’s a mindfuck even to imagine that.

@Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor "I chalked it up to him basically just being totally irresponsible and selfish"

I think this is your way of trying to minimise it so you don't have to confront what a terrible thing he did. He only changed his behaviour because other people called him out on it.

So he was completely happy to treat an animal badly and get paid!

I know this is hard for you to hear, but this isn't a person you want in your life. Being a blood relative is irrelevant.

Also, you say it quite casually "chalked it up "

you have got so used to him being a total.... I don't know what the word is... he's been cruel to an animal and you are still in denial about him being a bad person because you're so used to him being around.

It’s bizarre because you’re perpetuating this bollocks

fuck being fair. Fair stopped at his neglecting your dog!

don’t pay him, find another god parent and if your family so much as squeak in your direction, show them the photos, ask them what they’re going to pay for that kind of job and to deduct it from what you’re paying someone proper to do the job properly.

be straight with your family, tell them that they can carry on hobbling him with their ‘help’ but you’re not going to do so any more.

he put your dog at risk but took the money for it. He’s conned you and this cupboard is the last straw.

he won’t change if he’s not called out.