Page 10 | Is this going to cause a massive family rift?

Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor · 2024-04-04T16:09:22+00:00

Sorry for length of this - I have an older brother who is a little bit of a moocher - I’ve posted about him before under a different name. He has had a great education and many opportunities in life and has ended up, in his mid 30s, with no money and financially dependent on my mother. He never pays for himself and works a couple of hours a day, and that’s it. He is always feeling sorry for himself due to having no money, and therefore my mother/other siblings bank roll him as they worry he is depressed. I think he’s just playing on their emotions/using them (but I can’t be sure of this). He is always asking us if he can do odd jobs for cash. We let him dog sit last year whilst we were away - fridge full of food for him at ours, 25£ a day etc, and he fucked off for 10 hours a day to see friends and left our dog crying (we could hear on camera after neighbour messaged asking if dog was alright)/had to get mother to intervene as we were abroad. Came home to a fruit bowl full of rotting fruit and fridge full of off milk etc. Anyway we are expecting and he’s due to be god father as he is an extremely fun brother/uncle. We offered him 200-300£ to paint a wardrobe for the baby as he’s very talented artistically and his hobby is art related. He agreed. We set a deadline of 1 week for the work to be finished. 3 weeks later. 3 weeks of him lying (I can’t do it today as I’m working - turns out he was just at home chilling etc), showing up hours after he said he would, us waiting around for him….what he has painted is shockingly bad - he didn’t put the tape on properly and it needs totally clearing up/the non painted bits will need to be repainted to fix it. Anyway we basically said “if you don’t want to do this please just say as we had another person lined up”. No, he’s sorry but he’s not motivated. Ok, fine. So we have to get the other person to undo all his shitty work and the deadline was weeks ago and this has been a totally maddening experience. Today he messaged asking for money for the time spent on it. On one hand - maybe he is depressed (although he is never too depressed to see his friends and do the things HE wants to do - dinners, lunches, cinema trips, gym etc) and he did spend some time painting. On the other hand he totally fucking let us down and it’s going to now cost us MORE money than the other person originally quoted as she’s not starting from scratch. I don’t want to cause a huge family argument if we don’t pay him so do we just pay him something? What’s fair?

DisabledDemon · 06/04/2024 00:35

No, do not pay him. The work is substandard and he has messed you about.

Now, about this godfather business. It's all very well being fun and sweet with children but that's not the point. Part of being a godparent is being ready to stand up and take responsibility should anything happen to the actual parents. Can you honestly see him being up to that?

Original poster

Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor · 05/04/2024 21:12

Sandflea9900 · 05/04/2024 21:08

I am in a very similar situation with my DB. He is very much in the last chance saloon now with me and our DP. If he doesn’t take any responsibility this time he will likely lose his flat and everything. After years of trying literally everything, we are out of ideas and at our wits end. It is painful but I have concluded that you cannot help someone who won’t help themselves or at least acknowledge that they need help. I wish you and your family well.

Do you mind my asking what happened with your brother?

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Sandflea9900 · 05/04/2024 21:08

I am in a very similar situation with my DB. He is very much in the last chance saloon now with me and our DP. If he doesn’t take any responsibility this time he will likely lose his flat and everything. After years of trying literally everything, we are out of ideas and at our wits end. It is painful but I have concluded that you cannot help someone who won’t help themselves or at least acknowledge that they need help. I wish you and your family well.

AllyArty · 05/04/2024 20:53

There are 2 separate issues: his paint job and being a godfather.
Don’t think u can un-ask him to be a godfather so u will just have to hope he does what is needed. The poor painting is kind of sad and spoilt and smacks of someone with low energy/depression. He’s never going to change unless your mum changes or he feels the need to impress someone i.e. falls in love.
Until he decides to change his ways there is little you can do. Just look after yourself and your family.

Original poster

Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor · 05/04/2024 20:38

OldPerson · 05/04/2024 20:24

Experience is the most expensive thing you ever pay for. Of course you have to pay him. He's manipulating every single person in the family.

But there is nothing to stop you wising up.

Personally, I think you're stupid for making him Godfather! Make that really stupid. Because which child needs a feckless, irresponsible Godparent?

Just withdraw from using any of his "must pay" services.

Be pleasant at family events. Don't trust him ever - especially with responsibility (like how daft are you to make him a godparent.)

Just reflect and put in place some boundaries, that include him never crashing on your sofa. Or if he does make sure you wake him at 6am every morning to help out with the children, just so he doesn't feel inclined to outstay his welcome.

But don't come whinging to mumsnet about paying for this, including him in that, extra special consideration, while all he is doing is being a dick and abusing and exploiting people. (Again great values, NOT, in a godparent.)

Your post is incredibly contradictory. If he’s a total arsehole and I need to wise up (your post is unnecessarily unkind btw) why on earth would I pay him?

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OldPerson · 05/04/2024 20:24

Experience is the most expensive thing you ever pay for. Of course you have to pay him. He's manipulating every single person in the family.

But there is nothing to stop you wising up.

Personally, I think you're stupid for making him Godfather! Make that really stupid. Because which child needs a feckless, irresponsible Godparent?

Just withdraw from using any of his "must pay" services.

Be pleasant at family events. Don't trust him ever - especially with responsibility (like how daft are you to make him a godparent.)

Just reflect and put in place some boundaries, that include him never crashing on your sofa. Or if he does make sure you wake him at 6am every morning to help out with the children, just so he doesn't feel inclined to outstay his welcome.

But don't come whinging to mumsnet about paying for this, including him in that, extra special consideration, while all he is doing is being a dick and abusing and exploiting people. (Again great values, NOT, in a godparent.)

Original poster

Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor · 05/04/2024 19:45

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 05/04/2024 19:37

my mother is overly invested in our lives

I remember going to DH parents 2 hours away for two days with the kids and being rung up to an angry screaming tirade about why I'd didn't have "the grace or decency," to inform them. I was 38 at the time! It turned out they'd invited other relatives stay at our house, without telling me. The rage that I wasn't available to do their bidding and had embarrassed them. Apparently I'd been volunteered to pick them up at the airport too.

It sounds like your DM has got matriarch itis and is clinging onto the days when she could order your lives and tell you what to do and has failed to accept that you are now an adult, a mother yourself and you have your own priorities. Its like saying your DB must be indulged, I am and so you must too.

You need to wean her off this. It doesn;t have to be unkind, just be selective about how much you tell them and get a bit of space from the oversight.

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Sorry to hear about your mother. Sounds a pretty batshit situation re the entitlement wanting to use your house.

funnily enough, my mother’s (self ascribed) nickname is “the matriarch”

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AromanticSpices · 05/04/2024 19:40

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff .... what?!?! They'd invited relatives over to see you at your house without asking or telling you?! To stay?!

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 05/04/2024 19:37

Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor · 05/04/2024 14:24

I think just because of the sheer amount of time they spend together; they just discuss all of this stuff and my mother is overly invested in our lives.

Show quote history

my mother is overly invested in our lives

I remember going to DH parents 2 hours away for two days with the kids and being rung up to an angry screaming tirade about why I'd didn't have "the grace or decency," to inform them. I was 38 at the time! It turned out they'd invited other relatives stay at our house, without telling me. The rage that I wasn't available to do their bidding and had embarrassed them. Apparently I'd been volunteered to pick them up at the airport too.

It sounds like your DM has got matriarch itis and is clinging onto the days when she could order your lives and tell you what to do and has failed to accept that you are now an adult, a mother yourself and you have your own priorities. Its like saying your DB must be indulged, I am and so you must too.

You need to wean her off this. It doesn;t have to be unkind, just be selective about how much you tell them and get a bit of space from the oversight.

PansyP · 05/04/2024 18:48

Your family blaming depression isnt helping. It is still your brother’s responsibility to deal with his own poor mental health. Hes just being pandered to right now. This is ultimately a fail by everyone around him who has indulged him thus far. Stand your ground

Toptops · 05/04/2024 18:30

Say no

lemming40 · 05/04/2024 18:29

Pay him the money and then cut him off.

Original poster

Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor · 05/04/2024 17:45

Bookworm1111 · 05/04/2024 17:37

SIX 660ml bottles during a film that's, what, three hours' tops? That's a scary amount of booze for such a time period. Drinking any kind of alcohol he can get his hands on just to keep drinking? Again, scary.

I think you've just identified why he's got no drive and doesn't want to do stuff. He wants to drink more. Do you think he'll last all April?

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He did dry January and was fine, but then just went back to the same ways. Few nights per week of such heavy drinking. But as I said - other brother and mother have a similar drinking pattern which is part of why they all love hanging out so much (I’m never invited, obviously)

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Original poster

Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor · 05/04/2024 17:43

SharpWriter · 05/04/2024 17:34

Just wondering OP... you mentioned he goes out with his friends a lot - who pays then? I assume they do? They must get fed up with it too?

With family we always pay but with his friends he pays. That’s part of the reason he’s a piss taker - he has money to do what he wants to do, if no one else is paying!

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Bookworm1111 · 05/04/2024 17:37

Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor · 05/04/2024 17:12

I don’t think he’s an alcoholic but I think
He has an issue with alcohol; yes. But I think my mother and other brother do too.

eg we went to the cinema 3 weeks ago and both brothers drank 6 660ml bottles of beer during the film. Granted, it was a long film
but DB was drunk. At Christmas they drank even more than that and he started opening our very expensive “special” bottles of wine to just keep drinking - for the alcohol, not because he cared about the wine if you see what I mean

he’s doing dry April.

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SIX 660ml bottles during a film that's, what, three hours' tops? That's a scary amount of booze for such a time period. Drinking any kind of alcohol he can get his hands on just to keep drinking? Again, scary.

I think you've just identified why he's got no drive and doesn't want to do stuff. He wants to drink more. Do you think he'll last all April?

SharpWriter · 05/04/2024 17:34

Just wondering OP... you mentioned he goes out with his friends a lot - who pays then? I assume they do? They must get fed up with it too?

DaggerIsle · 05/04/2024 17:25

That's a huge amount of alcohol to drink during one film!!!
And drinking for the alcohol is a clear sign.
Follow your DH's lead and don't pay him. He was meant to do a job (for a lot of money too) and he didn't do it. End of.

First time saying no is the worst.

Original poster

Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor · 05/04/2024 17:12

Bookworm1111 · 05/04/2024 17:07

Is he a functioning alcoholic?

I don’t think he’s an alcoholic but I think
He has an issue with alcohol; yes. But I think my mother and other brother do too.

eg we went to the cinema 3 weeks ago and both brothers drank 6 660ml bottles of beer during the film. Granted, it was a long film
but DB was drunk. At Christmas they drank even more than that and he started opening our very expensive “special” bottles of wine to just keep drinking - for the alcohol, not because he cared about the wine if you see what I mean

he’s doing dry April.

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Bookworm1111 · 05/04/2024 17:07

Is he a functioning alcoholic?

Original poster

Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor · 05/04/2024 17:06

Mallani · 05/04/2024 15:44

Like others have said, having read everything you have posted I do think the main issue here is with your mother. My MIL was the same - after FIL died she enabled 'useless son' with his joblessness and idleness, as this meant that unlike my DH, he didn't leave the nest. Essentially she kept him as a sort of horrible pet (their shared hobby was Scrabble and drinking rather than dinners out), and he was 'lucky' (sorry MIL) that she died while he was 20 years short of retirement so he could still be employed and get some sort of life back.

Your mother isn't scared he'll 'do something' if everyone tells him to knuckle down - she's scared he'll escape her clutches. I think you need to research how to draw him away from the dysfunction.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you’re saying. I’m sorry about your BIL and im
happy he managed to make a go of his life in the end.

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Original poster

Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor · 05/04/2024 17:06

kkloo · 05/04/2024 15:41

Not true.
Depression can be different for different people.
And sometimes present differently in the same people.

I've had depression where I was unable to get out of bed, and other times where no one would have known.

Lots of people are saying he has a great life but could he really be happy if he's so codependent with his mother?

After saying that though from what has been said I think it sounds more like he has ADHD than depression so he could be happy enough just doing what he wants without pressure to do what he doesn't want.

@Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor
Has he ever had a serious relationship? or any relationships at all?

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I agree that depression can present in many different ways. I do just think it feels extremely convenient that he’s able to do all of the things he wants, and none of the things that look like hard work. Or even moderate work.

I really don’t think he has ADHD.

he has a pattern he follows in relationships - gets extremely over invested after 1-2 dates and throws himself in - eg bakes a lot for them, buys a specific mattress topper if they mention they like it. After approx 3 months he loses interest. He’s had a couple of long term relationships (he even lived with one for a year or two) but in the end it’s more or less the same - he just isn’t interested. He goes out with his friends drinking and ignores them, then blames the break up on them being “controlling” etc.

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Mallani · 05/04/2024 15:44

Like others have said, having read everything you have posted I do think the main issue here is with your mother. My MIL was the same - after FIL died she enabled 'useless son' with his joblessness and idleness, as this meant that unlike my DH, he didn't leave the nest. Essentially she kept him as a sort of horrible pet (their shared hobby was Scrabble and drinking rather than dinners out), and he was 'lucky' (sorry MIL) that she died while he was 20 years short of retirement so he could still be employed and get some sort of life back.

Your mother isn't scared he'll 'do something' if everyone tells him to knuckle down - she's scared he'll escape her clutches. I think you need to research how to draw him away from the dysfunction.

kkloo · 05/04/2024 15:41

Waytogoidaho · 05/04/2024 07:57

He is not suffering with depression. Depression renders people unable to get out of bed, turns them into monosyllabic, withdrawn shells of themselves who will not engage with the world who can barely string a sentence together, let alone socialise with friends. He’s playing you

Not true.
Depression can be different for different people.
And sometimes present differently in the same people.

I've had depression where I was unable to get out of bed, and other times where no one would have known.

Lots of people are saying he has a great life but could he really be happy if he's so codependent with his mother?

After saying that though from what has been said I think it sounds more like he has ADHD than depression so he could be happy enough just doing what he wants without pressure to do what he doesn't want.

@Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor
Has he ever had a serious relationship? or any relationships at all?

Original poster

Whatdoyoudowiththedrunkensailor · 05/04/2024 14:24

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 05/04/2024 13:57

I think the other half of that question is also, why is he doing the "I'm going to tell my mum on you I am" dance whenever he has messed you about and you dare to protest.
And why are they automatically piling in, when its more usual to say its between the two of you. Not just piling in but ignoring logic and deciding you are definitely in the wrong and he should get off scott free.
Major part of the problem is the way he keeps involving them to tell you off and they participate.
Is it just your mum or other siblings too?

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I think just because of the sheer amount of time they spend together; they just discuss all of this stuff and my mother is overly invested in our lives.

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Bigcat25 · 05/04/2024 14:11

Excellent point Duckedbilled. A healthy response would be 'you're adults, resolve it between yourselves.'

I wonder if the brother could have adhd? We have a similar problem with my older brother. He has trauma and undiagnosed mh issues. My parents support him. It's frustrating that he won't get help but it's better for my parents to have him housed and in contact, rather than homeless and lost.