Sanity check please - was I 'devaluing her art' or is this seller a headcase?

Okay, so I am an artist/ sell artwork.

the way she has spoken to you is atrocious. I was trying to think of reasons why she might have put the original value down, but the more I think about it, the more it doesn’t make any sense! The way she has gone straight to rant in one message is honestly quite unhinged - perhaps she has misread your message. I would say it was quite a dramatic price drop as a %, so if anyone is devaluing her work, it’s her.

I hope her correspondence hasnt spoiled the enjoyment of the art for you

So she posts photos/videos of her child to try and get attention/sales too? Gross.

I wish we could see the Instagram! Can you give us any clues? Even what sort of hashtag we'd find her under or the name of her town.

Yes, it was in one of the Screenshots. Any sympathy I might have had disappeared right there

She can't be struggling that much if she's happy to lose a repeat customer in this way. Her art is worth wherever someone is willing to pay for it, so inflating the value just for customs is barmy. She obviously has a very fragile ego.

But no-one owes anyone else a living or is obliged to pay more than they think an item is worth. I'm sure a lot of people would love to spend their days painting and get paid for it, but instead they work at other jobs. If we all just did enjoyable things all day and expected everyone else to pay for it the economy would grind to a halt pretty quickly.

So she's not running a viable business because her art won't sell for £500.

Fair play to anyone who wants to continue building a creative business while making a loss with the hope of one day making a profit, but don't get the arse with customers about it.

Sounds like she's being quite disingenuous. But you never know the truth behind social media posts really.

The victim mentality is definitely unappealing and 'artist poverty' is not exactly an original topic.

The way to combat that is to be proactive and find more innovative ways to make money, rather than simply complaining until someone buys something because they feel sorry for you.

I don't think I would buy her work even if I liked it tbh.

Are you sure you still want the work - it will just remind you of this now - will you really enjoy it?

A starving artist here 😁
We do struggle to make full time living from our work because not everyone can afford art at full price (understandably) which is why a lot of us have second jobs or supportive partners (or both, in my case). However, the issue of customs is completely unrelated to any "undervaluing of art". The cost of the item should be stated as purchase price plus shipping. What likely have happened is that the artist put a full value of the artwork for insurance purposes (in case the item gets lost in the mail) and didn't really consider that our customs threshold is the lowest in the world. I believe, in Canada you can import up to $1000 worth of goods before customs kick in.
The only right thing to do in this case would be to apologise profusely, not to blame your patron for any presumed sins. Poor business and gives the rest of us a bad name.

My sympathies. I was caught out similarly about ten years ago. There was a US based style system which could determine what you should wear based on a questionnaire covering personality and physical attributes.

You could get a pack of style cards, access to videos and Facebook group for an additional fee, it was one of those things that was constantly discounted by more than 50%. I thought I was getting a good deal by paying about $40 instead of $150 until I got hit by customs charges on $150.

The worst thing was when I collected the package it was in an A5 cardboard envelope and was a small folder with half a dozen cards describing the style. The videos were rambling and the Facebook group was very cultish. I felt ripped off paying $40 never mind the full price.

If you actually read my posts you will see that I am not defending the way the artist behaved, I think she was outrageously rude and unreasonable.

I am simply raising awareness that artists are hardly ever rich, usually struggle to make ends meet, and I can understand why she is sensitive.

That is indeed 'the deal' - but there are also people who seem to think artists are getting rich because they are charging £1000 for a painting - when in reality it probably isn't even covering their costs.

Not unreasonable. Tax is on the transaction value not on what the seller wants to think the item is worth. The woman is a pain.

Indeed - and her reaction to you was absolutely outrageous, as I've said.

But I can fully understand the underlying feelings behind it.

@thatthatsnotacactus

Also I can't stand it when artists refer to their pieces as "she", bleugh.

Is that what she did? 😂😂
I have no idea about Art, but what an utter knobhead 😁

That’s ridiculous. It’s difficult to make a living as an artist, absolutely — most artists have jobs as well, because they can’t sell their works at prices that cover costs and time spent, but that’s the deal. The artists I know teach at art schools, or have an unrelated job. I am a novelist and I teach at a university, as does nearly every writer I know. The fact that I can’t make a living wage from selling books doesn’t make it legitimate for me to try to insist on a different jacket price because I think the actual, ‘discounted’ retail rate ‘devalues’ my labour.

OP, definitely don’t buy art in future because of a sob story. If she can’t pay her electricity bill by selling work, she needs to find a paying job that supports her art.

A problem for me now would be the negative feelings I have for the artist after this behaviour. I can’t see myself wanting ‘her art’ on my wall. You need to look at art and enjoy it not be reminded of an unpleasant experience.

In any other business field you don’t get sympathy for running a loss making enterprise, it’s just a reality that some pursuits don’t pay unless you are particularly good at what you do.

If people won’t pay what an artist views to be a fair price then the artwork isn’t worth producing for a commercial market.

But the truth is that there are very few artists who overcharge for their work, once they have given themselves a modest hourly rate and paid overheads and materials.

The full price of a piece of work charged by artists is usually very reasonable (see the calculation in my post above).

The vast, vast majority of artists are significantly undercharging for the actual time and money spent on making their work.

Which is why it is a touchy subject.

No that isn’t how value works. Value is pretty much what someone is willing to pay not how much you think your own piece of work should cost. I can value my house at a million pounds but no one is going to buy it for that so it’s value is not a million pounds.

Yes.

The artist will set the price of the work, usually based on an hourly rate for making it, plus the cost of materials and overheads (studio space/ rent, and if they are lucky - sick pay, pension etc.) - although including sick pay and pensions usually isn't an option for artists.

Say it takes you 4 working days to make a painting. That's 30 hours, give or take. At a modest rate of £15 an hour, that is 30 x 15 = £450 already. For one painting. Not including materials and overheads, which will add on another chunk. Then you have to spend time promoting your work, running your business, accounting, social media, etc. All of that is unpaid.

At £500 for two pieces, which she has probably spent quite a lot of time making, you are likely getting an absolute bargain based on this calculation.

I can understand why she is sensitive about this topic - most artists are.

I’m pretty sure you (one) can’t just put a price they value their own item at, as that could be anything. It should be the price it was bought for or ‘starving’ artists could inflate the price to whatever they want.

She sounds like a spoilt, entitled, pretentious twerp.

When the piece has sold recently between arms length parties, and there is no evidence since of sales at a higher price, that IS the value. That’s how valuations work.

We have impoverished artists in every country. Stop importing and you'll stop paying import duty.

I thought it was VALUE though . Is the price you pay the value ?
She gave you a discount on the full price which is the real value .
So she was correct to put this price as the value I would think ?