AIBU to feel annoyed about ‘free childcare’

I expect this was before Ofsted and mandatory training, safeguarding, writing of multiple policies for everything under the sun, along with paying staff, DBS checks etc. Sorry but a playgroup is not the same.

Entice people from abroad! Thanks to bloody Brexit hardly any EU workers can be here! and the minimum income level needed for a work visa from most other countries precludes them coming.

I’m not denying that costs in general have gone up over the years.

I know a few single women who didn’t have children by themselves because quite simply they couldn’t afford it. These are women with professional jobs and their own homes.

Actually back in my day you had to pay to go to uni or got a grant. I certainly didn’t have loads of opportunities and neither did my peers. I’m not denying anyone younger than me those opportunities nor saying I can’t or won’t subsidise eg free or funded childcare. But there are lots of people like I said who do resent this.

People mostly need two salaries to run a house these days. Often people 50 or even 25 years ago didn’t, so (mostly) women were able to take on jobs that they enjoyed /fitted around their kids, eg playgroups, and the fact they had low pay wasn’t such an issue.

Rent/energy/food prices were also much more reasonable then as well-all of which are significant overheads for a business.

It’s not jealously is it? It’s just pointing out the selfishness of not caring about a wider society that haven’t had the same opportunities or financial security that you’ve enjoyed, and will go on to enjoy, because of the choices you were ABLE to make. But then the conservatives wouldn’t exist today without plenty of voters with exactly this attitude.

I agree here. A saving there is better than none.

DB and SIL were shocked that their Barnados nursery was double the cost of where they plan to move to in London (they’re moved across London) but will be down to £800. Of course it’ll cost money to move but they want and need to move anyway.

Why the jealousy? If I hadn’t opted out of gov pension I’d be reliant on that and if I’d had children I’d have had to pay childcare etc.

Several friends of mine have got private pensions and BTL properties especially when they were self employed and also have children though they’re much older (teenagers at uni and adults of 30).

Admittedly this was back in 1970 but my friend was in early 2000s.

I really did! Do you want to see my financial statements?!

The SERPs opting out of government pensions was common when I was about 18/19 in my second job. A financial advisor came to our offices and advised this. I’ve paid into a private pension most of my life so just got used to this and also have pensions from various jobs I’ve been in over the years and I’m lucky that DM invested and told us to invest with her in property. That’s partly to help DB who worked for years self employed and didn’t pay NI so his gov pension would be reduced when he retires.

When was this? Are you saying that because she never mentions costs, she had none? I expect things were very different then!

Of course we need people to have children to continue the population and provide for the next generation, but as OP says most parents complain about the costs of childcare when it’s just a fact of life that the first few years of childcare are expensive.

As I said before I’m happy to subsidise (and have no choice in this) childcare via taxes but seriously as I said, what do I get back? Nothing. I’m fairly lucky as I’m not poor but I’ve got child free friends who are struggling financially with CoL crisis, one pays her DM’s care home fees with her sister and what help does she get? Others on ok salaries but not earning the mythical huge salaries a lot of MN gets paid, they get absolutely zilch if they quit their jobs.

Haha, of course you did.

Good for you. You’ll be alright then Jack 😉

The government should never have used the word 'free'. It is not, and has never been, free. Nurseries would close if they didn't find a way to fill the gap in funding - hence the consumables charges. A saving of £240 is pretty good really - this will double when your child turns 3.

I actually opted out of gov pension (SERPS) a few years ago, have a private pension plus own a few BTL properties with DB and DM so won’t be relying on a government pension.

Where has anyone said they ‘won’t’ pay for childcare costs? I’m afraid you still need others in society to have children to continue the population and provide for the next elderly generation whether you choose not to/are unable to have children yourself.

Who is going to pay your pension if no one has any kids?

This has probably already been said (I can't be bothered to read 9 pages) - it should be called funded childcare, not "free". When we qualified there was only 15hrs available, and it was explained to us that it cost £5 ish pd to break even, and they got £4 in funding.
Given our DD went to a private setting, we weren't surprised about the extra costs added in so they made some profit.
Does it suck as a parent? Absolutely. But the govt should fund the hours properly.

Where I am 2 preschools (the "school hours" in community centre types) folded in the past year as the funding gap meant they could no longer pay staff/hall hire etc and because they were only open for the funded hours, they couldn't be "creative" in charging for extras.

So me and the 4 and other child free women and other (not necessarily by choice) women and men I know without children should subsidise those who have children and complain about paying for nurseries of childminders?

I don’t think having children is a luxury that should be preserved for the wealthy but I do resent (have said I’m quite happy to subsidise to a certain extent) bankrolling parents who won’t pay for their childcare costs. I don’t think that’s unfair.

I’m sorry but the continuation of the working population is a societal responsibility. How do you think the economy will continue exactly, if the general working/middle classes are finding it financially unviable to have children at all, or having to decide to stop at one child in a best case scenario? The numbers don’t work. It is not 40 years ago. One income is rarely enough, no matter what sacrifices you might make. If both parents now need to work full time then yes, subsidies should be made or we are forcing women (almost always women isn’t it) out of the workforce or forcing some families into financial hardship simply because they’ve had a child. Other European countries see the value in balancing accessible and affordable childcare with the economic benefits of both parents being able to work and raising the next generation of workers too.

However, it’s sadly very clear from this thread that many think having children should be a luxury preserved for the well off. Dangerous mindset. And where exactly do you think that will leave us in 25 years or so?

And thinking that everyone should be ok because they can simply use these magical church playgroups up and down the U.K. that run on dust and laughter, I don’t even know where to start, because you are being idiotic.

My DM when I was a baby ran her own playgroup from her house first of all and then started a one o’clock club. She never mentions costs. Someone else I knew ran a local playgroup in the church hall when her DC were born/small.

This. And I know a few childminders who seem great at their jobs. Use them if you can’t afford nurseries.

Children and childcare cost money. I get little or next to extra tax benefits having had no children and I don’t mind subsidising those with children but everyone knows nurseries are expensive. Partly why DB and his wife are moving to an area where childcare is half the cost of their Hackney nurseries.

I'm sorry, yes it's expensive, but the child is your responsibility, not the tax payers. You should consider before having a child if you need to change jobs, look for a childminder (generally cheaper than nursery), save so more time at home... Nursery's are more expensive now than a decade ago because staff have smaller ratios, more training and the cost of living has gone up impacting their running costs.

I just see this as the equivalent to complaining about the cost of private school. It's your child and your decision.