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Council tax very unfair to single people

508 replies

Lettuceandtomatoes · 02/04/2024 19:08

The council tax for my area is £1800 full whack, a single person 25% off. I pay £140 a month which is ok until I realised the three adults next door are paying £60 pounds each and a couple paying £90 each. So why this inequality aimed at single people, picking up the tab?

OP posts:
HotChocolateNotCocoa · 02/04/2024 23:36

Soontobe60 · 02/04/2024 19:12

What if the single person has an income of £100k, the couple a joint income of £75k and the 3 adults an income of 50K?

Not relevant. Council tax is not based on your income.

HotChocolateNotCocoa · 02/04/2024 23:35

Dacadactyl · 02/04/2024 19:13

What?

It's not unfair.

When I was a SAHM, DH paid all the council tax. I didn't have an income. And we didn't get a 25% discount.

That isn’t relevant. You CHOSE to be a SAHM. If you’re single, you don’t have the option of a double income.

Looolaa · 02/04/2024 23:34

Spectre8 · 02/04/2024 22:18

And it's not just tax it's the entire system. If a single person was suddenly made redundant which led to then losing their home they are out on the streets because they are at the bottom of the bottomless waiting list for housing.

There is no extra help or support. Families get help with childcare, housing, tax allowances etc.

Single people has zero safety net and as per usual the response is well shack up with someone or get a lodger from those privileged enough to have met someone they want to be with.

All of this!

The lodger thing is absolute crap. I flatshared for most of my 20s and some of my 30s and I had some great experiences but also some horrendous experiences including a flatmate threatening violence on me and the landlord having a go at me for calling the police. And another one where a flatmate removed one of the knives from the knife block the day after we had an argument. I’ve got no proof why she did it, but I believe it was to intimidate me. I assume she kept the knife in her bedroom. Then she had her (rough) mum walking up and down the hallway overnight to intimidate me.

You really don’t know what you’re walking into living with an unrelated adult. I would never live with another adult again unless it’s my future husband!

And even with the nicer housemates that I’m still in contact with, I was never able to be myself fully as I had to be considerate of them. I can walk around in my underwear here, leave the breakfast dishes until later, sing along to music with my tuneless voice etc, cook as long as I want to without worrying I’m hogging the kitchen…My stress and anxiety levels have plummeted since I live on my own.

HotChocolateNotCocoa · 02/04/2024 23:33

Houseplanter · 02/04/2024 19:11

Because the services you receive are the same as next doors.

But three times as many people are using them, which means three times the financial and logistical pressure on said services.

Lettuceandtomatoes · 02/04/2024 23:24

Spectre8 · 02/04/2024 23:17

Problem is you have posters here who it wouldn't benefit then to have a fairer system but hey god forbid they actually recognise the unfairness and acknowledge and agree that single people.have zero security and help if it all goes tits up. I mean its not like those those single people are paying towards their kids education,.uni fees, childcare and so on and still demand more help from the government 🙄

It’s wonderful to hear from someone who talks actual sense

OP posts:
Looolaa · 02/04/2024 23:21

HauntedBungalow · 02/04/2024 19:25

You'll get a load of crap about how it's 50% property and 50% personal (plus completely irrelevant tosh about people's DHs paying theirs - no one cares) and yeah MAYBE back in the days of Methuselah when it was introduced that might have washed but Council Tax is an abomination because

  • it varies wildly depending on your postcode
  • it's based on property prices from the 90s
  • any properties built after that time get a banding that's literally just made up
  • it's charged on all properties regardless of tenure - 35% of households rent so they don't even own the asset that is theoretically valued
  • it's not linked to ability to pay
  • single people pay 50% more than couples

For a taxation system ie a system of mandatory payments that a state imposes on citizens this is all deeply problematic. Obviously no tax system is perfect but there are huge fundamental flaws with council tax.

This. Spot on.

Spectre8 · 02/04/2024 23:17

Lettuceandtomatoes · 02/04/2024 23:07

Ok I’m off now. A post stating the obvious failings of council tax towards single people has brought out the complete idiots from the woodwork.
To the intelligent people who actually read my post, thank you and best regards

Problem is you have posters here who it wouldn't benefit then to have a fairer system but hey god forbid they actually recognise the unfairness and acknowledge and agree that single people.have zero security and help if it all goes tits up. I mean its not like those those single people are paying towards their kids education,.uni fees, childcare and so on and still demand more help from the government 🙄

CutthroatDruTheViolent · 02/04/2024 23:12

How do you suggest it changes then OP? That doesn't impact you living exactly where you want to, obvs.

whatkatydid2014 · 02/04/2024 23:11

Lettuceandtomatoes · 02/04/2024 22:34

Yes exactly. We are all using the same utilities and every adult should be responsible for themselves

I think some people just fundamentally disagree with you. I don’t think everyone should pay the same and be responsible for themselves.
I think those with more income &/or wealth should contribute more than those with less.
People have different ideas about what is fair. Do you think everyone regardless of income/assets should make the same tax contribution overall or only when it comes to council tax?

MrBallensWife · 02/04/2024 23:07

I agree OP,I'm in a 2 bed house,just my daughter (10) and I,so for those who suggest a lodger where do you suppose I put him/her?,not that I'd have a stranger living with my daughter!.
I get WTC and CTC and no Council Tax 'help' apart from the 25% discount.
I agree it should be a 50% discount.

Lettuceandtomatoes · 02/04/2024 23:07

Ok I’m off now. A post stating the obvious failings of council tax towards single people has brought out the complete idiots from the woodwork.
To the intelligent people who actually read my post, thank you and best regards

OP posts:
DragonFly98 · 02/04/2024 23:07

Single healthy adults get treated better than disabled people. I am too disabled to work but as there are two adults in the property we don't get a 25% discount. I am not saying we should my point is single adults get a better deal.

bluetopazlove · 02/04/2024 22:59

Would the poll tax work nowadays ? Well I remember a tory MP, can't remember who it was maybe Malcom Rifkind , lived in a castle was given a smaller Poll Tax bill than our household , that was my mum & dad teenage me my teenage brother .The Poll tax finished Maggie's career and I'm glad it did .I imagine your teenagers getting household bills . Then finding out MP's in castles paid less than your household .

Itsrainingten · 02/04/2024 22:56

But where is the inequality? That's what I don't understand. You get a discount for the same property that another family/ couple / house share group would have to pay full whack on. Surely the logical equality there would be to remove the discount then? (I'm not saying I want that done btw, just that I don't think your argument makes sense)

Houseplanter · 02/04/2024 22:56

You’re being extremely silly*
*
You can't answer then

Lettuceandtomatoes · 02/04/2024 22:54

Houseplanter · 02/04/2024 22:49

Which other services do you think you should pay less for @Lettuceandtomatoes ?

Gas and electricity because they're only keeping one person warm? Have you asked Tesco if they'd reduce your bill because you're only feeding one?

You’re being extremely silly

OP posts:
Lettuceandtomatoes · 02/04/2024 22:50

Itsrainingten · 02/04/2024 22:44

"However, I do wonder if property tax should be directly proportional to floor space."
This sounds fair to me. Although I assume the OP would still be unhappy with that. Some people just don't like to pay tax.

As the op I most certainly have no problem paying tax. I’m certainly not unhappy in aspects of my life,I was merely pointing out the inequality in regards to single people

OP posts:
Houseplanter · 02/04/2024 22:49

Which other services do you think you should pay less for @Lettuceandtomatoes ?

Gas and electricity because they're only keeping one person warm? Have you asked Tesco if they'd reduce your bill because you're only feeding one?

Itsrainingten · 02/04/2024 22:48

I did. What's your point?

Lettuceandtomatoes · 02/04/2024 22:45

Itsrainingten · 02/04/2024 22:41

Hmm that sounds very much like "there's no such thing as society" to me.
And you're not disadvantaged any more than a couple living together are. If 50% is for the property and 50% for the individuals and you pay 75% then you are paying the same as a couple. The only people who are paying less are those in shared housing and most people wouldnt be in shared housing if they were wealthy.

Read my opening post

OP posts:
Itsrainingten · 02/04/2024 22:44

"However, I do wonder if property tax should be directly proportional to floor space."
This sounds fair to me. Although I assume the OP would still be unhappy with that. Some people just don't like to pay tax.

Itsrainingten · 02/04/2024 22:41

Hmm that sounds very much like "there's no such thing as society" to me.
And you're not disadvantaged any more than a couple living together are. If 50% is for the property and 50% for the individuals and you pay 75% then you are paying the same as a couple. The only people who are paying less are those in shared housing and most people wouldnt be in shared housing if they were wealthy.

WannabeMathematician · 02/04/2024 22:41

I don’t know about the very very dubious assertion that more adults is directly proportional to more fire risk. (Can’t find any evidence to back up that having twice as many people in a uk home means you are twice as likely to have a fire).

However, I do wonder if property tax should be directly proportional to floor space. But no idea how that would work.

I’m against a poll tax. Most people can’t afford to pay for everything they use from the state so I don’t see how everyone paying a flat amount is taking responsibility rather than just putting a bigger burden on the poor.

Lettuceandtomatoes · 02/04/2024 22:34

Itsrainingten · 02/04/2024 22:30

So you think people who can't afford their own house or flat and live in a CMO, with say 4 other adults should all pay the same rate as you OP?

Yes exactly. We are all using the same utilities and every adult should be responsible for themselves

OP posts:
Itsrainingten · 02/04/2024 22:30

So you think people who can't afford their own house or flat and live in a CMO, with say 4 other adults should all pay the same rate as you OP?