For DH to insist on vaginal birth not ceasarean

In your opinion.

That doesn't make your opinion relevant to anyone else.

That’s just some people in general.

Doesn’t mean that choices should be taken away, especially when it comes to a woman’s own body.

There is no field of human decision making that is free of cognitive biases.

The question here seems to be more who is primarily impacted by the consequences of decision making, especially at the level of bodily autonomy, and what that should confer in terms of roles in decision making.

Your friend's husband isn't the one giving birth, so it's not his decision.

That said, I have had both a C-section and a vaginal birth, and I personally found the vaginal birth much easier.

Admittedly, the C-section was following a failed induction, so I did experience contraction pain for a few hours before I had an epidural, and I was pretty exhausted by the time I had the C-section. I also had an epidural when I gave birth vaginally, which meant I only felt the contractions whilst in early labour and not for what probably would have been the most painful part. So if I were comparing a nice calm ELCS after a decent night's sleep against a difficult vaginal birth without pain relief, I would probably feel differently. But for me personally, the vaginal birth with the epidural once things started to heat up was a much more enjoyable experience.

If your friend is worried about pain, she should consider getting a lightly dosed epidural once she is in active labour. The women I know who have done this have had pretty positive experiences. If having an ELCS is what she really wants, she is of course entitled to request one. But it is not pain free. The pain comes afterwards, when the incision is healing.

Either way, your friend's husband needs to butt out. He needs to understand that C-sections are a perfectly valid way of giving birth, and in some situations they are life saving. I really hope he is not going to be unsupportive if your friend decides to attempt a vaginal birth and then ends up having to have a C-section anyway for medical reasons, which could easily happen.

@Irisginger Some women do make ridiculous and selfish decisions. Not all. Some.

Not really as a woman really wanting a CS is a reason for it not to be avoided. If I had said to my obstetrician “I am very happy to give birth vaginally, my pregnancy has been complication free and my birth is likely to be the same but I want a CS simply to watch Wimbledon” (as you suggest happened…), my particular obstetrician would have discussed the possibility of having a vaginal birth. It would have been a different story if I simply said “I do not want a vaginal birth.”

Ah yes, this is because as, @LorlieS, helpfully reminds us below, women make ridiculous decisions. Apparently it is 'a fact', so it must be true. You have been warned; women, know your limits.

It's very strange to me (it's not - pure shameless misogyny) that the medical profession are by and large (or at least were) fine and dandy with prescribing off label drugs to minors that affect/ prevent 'natural' processes like puberty and further later prescribing powerful cross sex hormones, removing breasts and penis etc ... but a woman in agony in childbirth is refused painkillers or a woman who wants to be sterilised is refused it because 'she might change her mind'.

But apparently it's ok to be on the oh so natural internet, telling other women that their decisions are ridiculous and they shouldn't be allowed to make them.

As an aside why the assumption that 'natural' is automatically better? No, it's not. It's neutral at best. As an acquaintance once said to me 'death and dog's dirt are both natural and we humans do all we can to avoid them'!

Is any medicine or any form of civilisation 'natural'? Should we still be living in caves and dying from infected cuts?

If women were designed to give birth why did so many women die and of course still do?

What? They let you partake in the enjoyment of light entertainment so soon after having failed to fulfil your biological destiny in the ascribed manner? I would have thought that should have resulted in your media being taken away from you for, what, at least a few months?

Mmmm true. In that case it was probably feckless. After all, we evolved to give birth without watching the telly afterwards.

Agree on Cowell, but that was the year Diversity won and I enjoyed them!

My sample is obviously self-selecting as it consists of women who are litigating, but I have seen dozens of women who were refused or dissuaded when they asked for interventions including epidurals and sections. The consequences can be very bad for mental health.

Simon Cowell is quite annoying, so I'd say maybe it could count as penance and therefore be acceptable.

@LorlieS

yep Hun a women’s right to choose DOES trump everything else!

woo hoo!

why you got an issue with that?
internalised misogyny? Some notion that women should suffer to be a mother?

what else could possibly be more important?

Yep! Which is why a proper analysis of risks vs benefits of epidurals is lacking when it ignores all this. And why it matters that we don't have much in the way of good data on women who are denied epidurals after asking for them.

@thebestinterest

why the hell is it bonkers?!

why is women being able to choose what happens to their own bodies bonkers?!

I don't care a jot about something being "natural". I'd have been dead long ago without lots of "unnatural" things such as refractive lenses, appendectomy and antibiotics.

This is what I mean. We also had a completely different diet and jobs. The way we moved and how much she moved, everything!

Ive known people have wonderful home births and I’m happy for them. But you know what? They’re lucky. A group of us all did everything for a natural birth and I think one of us got it.

But women must suffer!

I know women who were refused epidurals and are still upset about it. That lack of control and severe pain (often poorly positioned babies) is a lovely trauma recipe. It’s 2024.

And I agree that epidurals often help women give birth when before they would have just died from exhaustion.

I watched the final of Britain's Got Talent 2009 an hour after giving birth by section. Is that OK? I enjoyed it.

😂