To think my child is likely to have more opportunities throughout life if I send them to probs to school?

I think a sensible way of viewing private school is as a way to enrich your child’s education at the time. There is no doubt they will have access to better facilities, better student teacher ratios, inspiring school trips, high quality school meals, a more mature / engaged class attitude when it comes to learning, etc etc. These are all good reasons for choosing private school, if you can afford it. However they don’t guarantee success in life long-term. If you are seeking that, then you may be putting large amounts of pressure on your child, which may not end well.

can you afford the school fees without it drastically affecting your lifestyle? If you scrape together the money each term and go without holidays, house upgrade etc as a family, how are you going to feel if your child doesn’t achieve high flier status as they go through school? Will you be happy enough that they are having an enriching experience?

Much success in life has to do with tenacity, determination, a clear drive in one particular area, and lack of mental health issues. Private school can’t sort any of this out long term. I have adhd and can’t stick a job for more than a year which infuriates me. But I left school with better grades than my brother (all A’s). He had a clear interest / obsession in one field and has worked away at that for over 20 years and is now very successful. We both went to state school.

State is only 6 hours they are keen to see the back of them by 3.15 😀

Literally just spent the last 2 hours with lovely group of parents and teens mix of state and private - zero difference

@TheaBrandt at private schools they tend to have them for 8 hours a day but yes fundamentally parents model manners etc

That’s not the school though Jock that’s the parents sorry. Our state educated teens and most of those of our friends have those social skills taught and modelled by parents not teachers. School only gave them 6 hours a day. The state and private pupils undistinguishable. There are painfully shy monosyllabic teens from both sectors.

It's an interesting conversation, and one that has come up on MN for years.
It's definitely true that not all private schools are equal, and not all state schools are equal - so it's probably impossible to draw any definitive conclusions.

I come from a family of 6 siblings, all of us state educated. We all grew up in Scotland, so state comprehensive schooling was the norm for most folk.

One of my DB's has done exceptionally well for himself, a high earner in London, as is DSiL.
My niece and nephews are roughly the same age as my 3 DCs.

DB put his 3 DCs through private school, at a cost that was eye-watering to me.

I put my 3 DCs through state school in Yorkshire - a good local school, and we didn't need to pay a house price premium.

All 3 of my DCs achieved higher academically than my brother's DCs - and my sister's DCs also achieved higher grades.

However - we all attended a family event last summer, and it was quite clear to me that my niece and nephews had an air of confidence, that my DC's didn't.
My niece and nephews had the ability to join any conversation with anyone, and were fully able to offer their opinions on any subject.
My DC's tended to hold back? They were polite when spoken to, but seemed to lack the confidence to enter themselves into conversations?

My niece and nephews are all still living at home (in Surrey), and have secured themselves professional jobs - lined up by contacts of DB and DSiL. They are earning very well, and will soon be able to afford a deposit on a London property.

My DS, with his better degree grade, is working hard, paying his rent in Newcastle. He doesn't rely upon me financially whatsoever, but is highly unlikely to be able to save up a deposit.

I don't have 'contacts', and DS doesn't have 'networks', and he definitely isn't as "polished" as his privately educated cousins.

@ivee

are fluent in 2-3 languages

Are they living abroad for a couple of years?

Not all private schools are created equal. I went to one which wasn't particularly academic and would probably have done just as well at a good state school.

Dh however went to a top London one for boys and i think apart from academic achievement it gave him confidence. He has always believed he can achieve anything. He never feels overawed and can hold his own with anyone no matter who they are.

Well my eldest was home educated.. she's on 90 to 120 k
I must have done a good job.

I also know private educated and state educated folks too and all are lovely

plus I also know of a state educated doctor and a surgeon too so going private might help but not always. Just saying

it isn’t a race to the bottom or is that the top!!

God there are some trite embarrassing posts on this thread. How decent a person you are or aren’t usnt linked to your income level 🙄

Do you know where everyone you know went to school?

This is the thing I always find strange about threads like this.

The people I know who went to private schools are all lovely.

https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/04/01/wealth-inequality-where-in-europe-is-wealth-most-unfairly-distributed?fbclid=IwAR3MGtC5OSeOkaFtrqC_zKlG1mNX2Go_lBV98wCK-99ECq3UY5NG28_ccnc

Slightly less relevant for the schools discussion, but thought I'd share the piece published recently.

You know, how the commonly shared narrative is that the UK has got ridiculous levels of inequality? As usual, people pushing the narrative do not like the stats and boring numbers. It might surprise you, but the UK is far less unequal (in wealth terms) compared to most major European economies (Gini index).

When comparing the wealth held by the top 10% (concentration of wealth), UK ranks second best (ie less concentrated) in Europe, just behind Belgium.

I bet this is not the narrative you will ever hear from politicians or media.

Knowing 3 people who went to private school is hardly a representative sample. That's like saying I know 3 people who went to state school and are vile, are they all like that?

I was privately educated until 11, earned 4 degrees, attended the University of Cambridge and now I teach in a private school and am about to buy a home there. My sisters who were privately educated their whole lives are both lawyers. My Mum scrubbed floors to send us there and is still paying off school fees with her blood and sweat.

Three of my close friends who went to private school their entire lives are now doctors /or surgeons. My closest state school friends are mostly single mothers or otherwise not up to much.

HOWEVER, I think it's more to do with the family values on education than private education itself, in all honesty.

I certainly won't be able to afford to send my kid to private school, but I will have high standards for what I expect him to achieve.

I think it’s more ‘if it’s not available to me it shouldn’t be available to anyone’. But that wouldn’t be admitted to of course. So rather than being honest, it is changed to the old socialist (or communist) argument. If it’s not available to everyone it’s available to no one. Bring everyone down rather than try and raise people up. Hence getting rid of most grammars - which gave able students from any background, a good start. No no that’s not acceptable, let’s get rid of them. Etc etc.

It's been true recently (since the end of grammar school system) on average (some children are bullied or don't suit the private school they are in) but it might not be true by the time your DC hits the workforce. There might be positive discrimination to get more state school educated into top jobs, private schools might deteriorate due to cost of living crisis of middle class.

I would think that money brings advantages that people without money can't compete with.
Scrimping and saving to get child into a cheaper private school is not going to be a lot better than sending child to state school and using extra money for enrichment, trips, holidays.

How does it come up in workplaces that people went to private school? Do they have to say or do people google the name of their school when they mention it?
If I said I went to St Peters in Essex, would anyone know if that was private or state? (I have made that one up)
I'd be kind of hoping that after a few years my work experience and other qualifications would be more important than the name of my (average private) school.

It’s hardly a fallback when that is exactly what would happen, and is demonstrably the case now. The vast majority of parents use state schools, yet somehow the standards vary wildly. I’m not sure why you think private schools being banned would somehow change this instead of entrenching it.

And ‘fallback’? For what, anyway? People have given their reasons. That you don’t like their reasons, and dislike the use of private schools, a ‘you’ problem. You don’t need to like them 🤷🏻‍♀️

That’s always the lazy fallback for parents who claim they were forced into private schooling by inadequacies in the state sector. Just send your kid to the local school and stop inventing hysterical scenarios about what ‘everyone’ would do — they won’t catch ‘prole’ from their classmates. Or suggesting you’re actually doing state schools a favour by freeing up a place.

@WillowRoseTile the thing is education is used by more and more frequently for longer. I believe this has worked very well in Finland.

That’s wishful thinking. The parents that didn’t find alternatives to state schools would do the same thing they do now - buy within the catchment areas of desirable state schools (and create the knock on impact of that), essentially creating a minority of ‘private’ state schools that will flourish while others continue to fail.

I used to think it was true about state schools being better if everyone went there.

Then I look at the state of the ambulance service and emergency medicine which everyone has to use and I am not so sure.