Something needs to be done about drugs in UK

"Cars and dogs serve a purpose, to transport and accompany. Drugs (illegal ones) do not."

The trouble is, they absolutely do serve a purpose. Most people who develop serious addiction issues are self-medicating for untreated or poorly treated mental health conditions and neurodiversity. There are thousands of young people using ketamine to alleviate ADHD symptoms, for example; it's a shitty, lethal, horrible drug, but it does, to some extent, "work". Same goes for cannabis and things like panic disorder, PTSD and bipolar. Until we tackle the utter paucity of appropriate support and treatment for these issues, people will carry resorting to illegal drugs. It's horrendous, but criminalising the people suffering at the bottom of the chain is always a disaster.

Example: a 19yo lad with undiagnosed and untreated ADHD, who has been excluded from school after being labelled as a shit kid and offered no support at all, just punishment and contempt. He now has panic attacks and an anger problem as well. He knows he can't access education and has few prospects. His relationship with his family has broken down because they don't understand why he keeps failing at everything. He doesn't sleep, eats poorly and can't manage self-care because of executive dysfunction (which neither he nor his family have ever heard of). His friends are other mentally unwell, angry "shit kids" who have been spat out by schools with zero-tolerance behaviour policies and no SEND provision. They're all self-medicating with drugs. The only jobs they can get are zero-hours contracts in fast food restaurants, and they frequently get sacked because they can't manage even that level of consistency and function. There are thousands of them, and the fact that many of them will end up in prison is a systemic failure, not a personal one.

Which may - or may not - be true.

However I can't see how that statement advances the discussion ? Where the OP clearly wants something to be done about something. Which seemed quite straightforward until some people started asking what the something that needed something doing about was.

"Cars and dogs serve a purpose, to transport and accompany. Drugs (illegal ones) do not"

Drugs do serve a purpose. When used recreationally and in moderation they are a lot of fun. Just like horse riding, or off piste skiing, or rock climbing, or surfing. All recreational activities.that are done for enjoyment/recreation/fun but also carry risk. I assume you don't think all those activities should be banned?

It wouldn’t solve the issue at all. I don’t know how many of you have experience with class A drug use, but no matter what their behaviour is unpredictable. How would we police it? Could you be an addict and still drive a bus, work as a nurse, work with children? Would it be legal to be high in a public place during the day? Do you want that legalised around your children? Would you be happy with benefits being spent on heroin? Would we limit who we sold it to (ie nobody with serious health issues or who had a conviction for committing crime under the influence/dealing) thus creating a black market anyway?

It’s too fraught with problems. Legalisation is pure fantasy and can’t be implemented in any way.

No different that someone who is drunk, and also would be treated the same by the police unless they had drugs on them at the time.

we arent tough enough are we?

If we bought back death or even life imprisoment for drug smuggling etc, we wouldnt have so much of a problem.

Heroin should be available on prescription to those addicted alongside cessation programmes and support. That would solve most of the issues caused by addicts eg theft, overdose, homelessness etc as addicts with a good supply can often function pretty well.

strongassixpence
Would that mean anyone who wanted heroin on prescription could just ask their doctor for it and he/she would have to prescribe it?

We live in a world where there is tolerance, decriminalisation and better education and ways of dealing with drug users.

Others places where you'll have your hands cut off for far lesser crimes. I know which I'd prefer. Comparing our laws to Singapore is frankly, silly and unhelpful in this sense.

Drug users need help, mental health support and medical agency to support their bodies to come off it without it being criminalised because prisons are rife with drugs.

If it were decriminalising or legalised it could be taxed, that money could be spent on mental health services which would ultimately make street dealers redundant and all the hell that goes with that.

This will never happen because people are too pig ignorant on the subject.

"So those should be banned too"

@RegretMisery

Yes because prohibition in the US worked so well....

Drugs are not all negative. They had really positive affect on my life. And have been used since the dawn of time by humans in one way or another. We love altering our state of consciousness.

They are also finding that hallucinogens are showing very positive results in treating resistant mental illnesses.

Plus people should have personal responsibility. Something we should be encouraging more of, not less. Banning things isn't always the answer (and has repeatedly, over many many years, been shown to be completely ineffective in managing drug use and addiction - the USA's "war on drugs" has done nothing to stop drug use in America).

Personally, I think all drugs should be legalised and addiction should be treated as a medical issue, not a criminal one.

endofthelinefinally · Today 13:24
There is virtually no support or help for addiction here unless you can pay for it.

Narcotics Anonymous (NA) meetings are free. There’s an option to put some money into the pot at the end of each meeting but it’s not compulsory and most people don’t give more than a £1.

It's very difficult to have a nuanced debate about drugs in this country. People jump straight to "drugs are evil, lock all the dealers up and throw away the key" which conveniently ignores the fact that recreational drugs, whatever you think about them, serve a purpose for the user. Not enough people understand the environmental, social and psychological causes of addiction. For example, research has shown that a history of child sexual abuse is extremely common among heroin addicts, in fact some form of childhood abuse/neglect is so prevalent its almost universal in heroin users. That means that almost everyone who uses heroin is trying to escape childhood trauma. It is also a proven fact that many people with severe and enduring Mental Health issues such as psychosis start using illegal drugs in an attempt to self-medicate and manage their symptoms. Investing in social care services, education, early years services and preventative Mental Health services would be much more effective in the long term in reducing reliance on recreational drugs (you'll never eradicate it completely) than tougher criminal sentences which, let's face it, just creates more drug problems within our already failing prison system. But it's easy for politicians to spout soundbites about being "tough on crime" rather than investing in protecting the most vulnerable in society.

It's also hugely simplistic to label all drug dealers as evil murderers and completely fails to acknowledge the extent to which vulnerable and desperate people are often exploited and groomed into offending behaviour. I have worked with 11 year old children who are technically "drug dealers", people with severe Mental Health issues and Learning Disabilities who have been tricked or threatened into dealing, and women whose abusive partners have forced them to deal for them. Throwing those people in prison and villifying them as murderers might satisfy a base desire for revenge or fool us into thinking we're all safer in the short term but it does nothing to address the real problems. Again, we have seen over a decade of the services that are meant to help and support those most at risk of being drawn into addiction and criminality being cut to the bone and the Government don't give a shit about the consequences of this for ordinary people.

Sorry for the rant but this is a massive source of frustration for me due to professional and personal experience (not me, but there's a lot of addiction in my family historically) and I do wish it was possible to have a more reasoned debate around these issues.

Again, people choose to take them knowing the harm they cause.

To everyone saying drugs should be legalised, would you be happy to sit on a bus next to a bloke high on crack, with all the unpredictable behaviour that brings? It’s not illegal for the sake of the addict but also because of the effect people high on drugs have on society. They’re dangerous, they commit crimes, they frighten people. They don’t care about anyone but themselves. I don’t want that legalised.

It's already here. We have deaths all over the country from it. The difference is that the NHS does not allow fentanyl to be prescribe willy nilly like in the USA, so it's less popular here.

That said, the nitazine drug class (only made a Class A a few days ago) is a very similar synthetic opiod where we also have deaths all over the country, but it's likely coming in from laboratories in China. This is more likely to be a problem here not least of all because it's cheaper.

@asidream oh gosh yes. The amount of abuse I've received for ruining a high.
The general public are very reluctant to administer it, I do however think it should be included in first aid training

Sssssh ...

If you want to stop things that cause death everyday, you should lobby for cars to be banned. Far more daily deaths than drugs. Drugs should be legalised, taxed and regulated.

@supersonicginandtonic I don't disagree with you there as someone who has also worked with people who misuse substances, but it certainly reduces deaths, and bystanders can give it too. Now the issue of people getting narky when they have been given it and wake up is another thing!...

No perfect solutions for sure, but wider ones are needed

@Begaydocrime94 every area has a free to access substance misuse service. The problem is it's underfunded so the case loads per worker are stupidly high.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-blasted-links-medical-cannabis-12701871
As long as the drug dealers are the RIGHT kind of drug dealers.😁

NARCAN isn't always the way. I work in substance misuse and all opoid and opiate addicts are given naloxone and we still get overdoses. We give harm minimisation advise but then they don't always take it. It's sad but true. Whether it's legal or not we would still have issues.

They seem fun though. That is their purpose.

There is virtually no support or help for addiction here unless you can pay for it. There is a significant genetic component in addiction/addictive personality and early intervention/awareness could do a lot to prevent problems. Abuse, trauma in childhood, neurodiversity, ADHD, mental illness are all significant factors in addiction.
IMO, legalising everything would eliminate the crime and violence associated with the drug trade, but the money made from this would have to go into support services, detox, rehab, counselling.
It needs to be made a health issue, not a criminal issue.
Once the NHS took on board smoking rehab, the results have been positive.

Ask the many many people who do drugs and they may feel very differently. For many it's a coping mechanism for the awful trauma they've gone through as children. Imagine if we tried to understand this, made trauma therapy accessible to people, did something to bring down poverty levels etc - throw money at that rather than increased crackdown?
Tbh you need to differentiate which drugs as well not just legal/illegal as we've arbitrarily drawn that border based on faulty reasoning. Heroin is pretty bad, but psilocybin for example is pretty much harmless. I will always advocate for people's liberty to choose to ingest what they want in their bodies, I've dabbled and it was a very fun and eye opening couple of years. My choice

Prohibition fails. You also can't compare Singapore with the UK as there are so many differences, both legislatively and culturally.

The best solution would be legalisation of the less harmful drugs eg cannabis, speed and ecstacy. Have them sold as controlled substances with appropriate testing and labelling. Taxed and safety checked.

Heroin should be available on prescription to those addicted alongside cessation programmes and support. That would solve most of the issues caused by addicts eg theft, overdose, homelessness etc as addicts with a good supply can often function pretty well.

I'm not sure what the best solution for drugs like cocaine are which are not as addictive as opioid but also more harmful to health.

This would take a huge amount of revenue away from organised crime. Problematic behaviour from addicts would reduce. Police resources could be redirected. Tax takes could be spent on addiction and mental health programmes.