What makes you middle class?

I personally don't think profession or money defines someone as middle class these days. I think a lot of it is upbringing and the background you come from.

Honestly I think these days it can depend on who you are actually talking to and their personal definition.

This has a stab at explanation starting with history and trying to apply to UK today.

You see, with the greatest respect, I'd say, from what you've said here, that you have working class origins, but that you've been socially upwardly mobile and you're now solidly middle class. An educated salaried professional home owner is the definition of middle class in my view. That's always been my understanding.

But they might be working class even as adults. I’d say it will depend on their interests and level of education and work when they’re adults. But yes they may be middle class.

People build entire careers around it. Jess Phillips for example is a middle class person who pretends to be working class. Her father held a chief executive position within the health sector. Everyone thinks she’s working class because she is gobby and has a regional accent.

Another example is Jack Monroe, a well-educated person from a middle class background, who pleads poverty and has made an entire career on writing recipes you can make for 30p (but when Lee Anderson, an actual working class person, says basically the same thing, he is scum).

Which is interesting because his kids will not be.

Oh my goodness, yes! My personal bugbear! I've known so many very obviously middle-class people declare boastfully how working class they are, usually on the grounds that their great great great great great grandfather was a farm labourer or something! Drives me bonkers. I actually think it's far worse than being fake posh. Being fake working class is very unfair on those who have had genuine working class struggle. It also makes a mockery of sociology.

I'm not sure I agree with this. A lot of people are confused about what class they're in - others can hazard a guess but it won't always be right. I've had plenty of people make assumptions about me but they are rarely correct. Where you grew up and when also confuses things.

I am a higher earner, have a PhD and live in a big house, and I'm working class AF. This is because I grew up on a council estate, went to a state school and had free school meals as a kid.

I respectfully disagree with this completely. Class is fluid. Social mobility is a reality. The class system changed dramatically in recent years due to decline in industry etc. I actually think many of us are not clearly defined by one class or another anymore and have had varied influences.

• 'Generally not being a twat for no good reason '

I take it you are not MC then.

They'll always be described as 'having a working class background'. Takes three generations at least to even start moving class

@Justkeeepswimming yes, I agree, people will opt out, which is frustrating given the tax reliefs offered. I know people will want to hold on to every penny, but for £80 net now, £200 would go into a pension. We need to do a better job of informing people how important this stuff is.

It's a weird one, I was brought up working class. My accent is working class, my Dad was a fitter at a factory and my Mum a seamstress and I've had a plethora of working class jobs myself, kitchen assistant, cleaner, receptionist, shop assistant etc I've also been broke and needed to sign on for benefits in early adulthood.

However I now have a post graduate degree and a career (the career was hard to break into and I had to take breaks in my higher education to earn money in any old job), I own my own home outright at 40 (modest house in a posh area up North that we overpaid the mortgage on before we had kids) my husband had more of a middle class up bringing, so he would be described as middle class.

So what am I classed as now? Fuck knows lol. Middle class people born and bred will probably consider me working class, working class people battling the shitty cost of living crisis will probably consider me middle class.

Not quite got Jason Manford money but I think he coined the term "Muddle Class".

Or is it just a shitty way to divide people and how they feel about themselves?

It's this.

Going back in time.

This indeed. It’s like the people who one would imagine would be most outraged by the existence of a hereditary monarchy with vast amounts of wealth and privilege passed on through a bloodline being the ones camping out all night on royal wedding/funeral/coronation routes to wave little flags — they’re overwhelmingly working and lower-middle-class.

😂😂

@LovelyTheresa - aren't you a chef? A generation ago that would have been service or a cook:

You do know that many opt out @Everanewbie

We are looking at changing DH as total pot was predicted as 57k though I think initially he was on minimal contribution and less than what it is now when it started.

So stressful. And I find myself having to pull rabbits out of hats and am having to plan other investments due to this.

My side of fam nhs/teachers etc just seem to waft without worry regarding pensions and so forth. Mainly have been complaining that they can’t go on X no. of holidays, eat out or upgrade their cars so frequently.

Whereas DH family are talking about the cost of utilities and groceries, the basics.

@Notmyuser He is nearly 80, I suspect he will work until he drops.

I can assure you the situation with my parent’s retirement is correct..

Aware that workload can increase to 50hrs at key times such as exams, or when you are setting up new lesson plans and so forth.

The extended summer break, and always having other school holidays tended to make up for this for my family and friends.

I appreciate your point of view, but having seen and lived with the reality of both I still say teachers and the like have a much better quality of life.

I agree that a teachers pension is likely to provide more income in retirement than a person on minimum wage with an employer matching statutory minimums of auto-enrolment, yes. But 8%pa of salary going into a pension on the minimum wage over 30 years will see £80,000 invested, and with years and years of compound growth, a pot of more than £150,000 in addition to the state pension is not unrealistic.

@CaterhamReconstituted what I find fascinating is the people who are most disadvantaged by the existence of a class system are often those who most vehemently deny its existence.

Yes! The upper middle and upper classes would never ask this of a guest.
Basically, Jilly Cooper has the class system nailed, for anyone who needs to do more research 😂

Middle class means you are all of the following:

• In full-time employment or housewife
• Work in a white collar role
• Own home outright or with a mortgage (excluding ex-council house bought under right to buy)
• Not involved in petty crime like shoplifting or drug-dealing
• Never sit outside the front of your home smoking or drinking
• Being considerate to neighbours
• Generally not being a twat for no good reason
• Educated to at least degree standard