What makes you middle class?

The bbc had a quiz on class a while ago. It looked at your job, your interests and the jobs your friends had.
There were subsections of working, middle and upper class.
I agree it is not about money as such but sadly wealth often gives better education and opportunities and so can lead to social standing.
However the richest person I know considers themself upper class but is actually rougher than a badgers arse.

I think people miss the point about cultural capital. They interpret it as an allegation that working class people cannot be “cultured”, and they refer to a builder who likes Mozart. I don’t think this is what it means. It refers (I think) to the kinds of dominant habits, hobbies and cultural pursuits among particular classes, such that even the least interested person from that background would have some knowledge or competence.

A working class person who knows about theatre does so because he takes an active interest in it. A working class person with no such interest will have zero knowledge. But all middle class people will have at least some knowledge, to varying degrees, because the environment they grew up in was replete with such pursuits going on around them. Ditto piano playing etc.

Likewise, I know working class people who don’t like football but can still tell you who the title-winning squad from twenty years ago. Middle class people can like football but it’s not in their cultural DNA. They would not have grown up with their dad talking about it, and any interest in it has to be systematically discovered rather than absorbed osmosis-like as it is with the working class.

Yes but howwwww 😆

Unless it’s a really obvious BBC accent then would have no idea

Definitely. Good point.

I think class is much more fluid these days but when I was at Grammar School in the 1960s it was clearer. Those of us from working class families lived in council houses and very few families had a car or a foreign holiday. We played in the street until dusk. The mid-day meal was dinner and the evening meal was tea. Older relatives (including my granny) were often still in rented terraced houses with outside toilets, no hot water and a tin bath hanging on a nail in the back yard. Our fathers did manual work and our mothers worked part-time as cleaners or shop assistants. Most of us didn't have dining rooms, we ate at the kitchen table.

The middle class girls lived in privately owned semis or detached houses with a drive. They all had family cars and some of the mums had their own car. They had telephones, holidays in hotels (sometimes abroad) and went to the theatre and concerts. The girls had piano / flute / violin lessons and learned ballet. The mid-day meal was lunch and the evening meal was dinner. Their parents had a drinks cabinet with crystal glasses, held dinner parties and employed cleaners. Their fathers worked in offices, some were professionals eg doctors, dentists, teachers. Most of their mothers didn't work but some did volunteering or supported the family business. They had pianos, bookcases, desks and a dining room with a parquet floor and French doors to the garden.

There weren't any upper class girls at the Grammar School to my knowledge. They probably went to private school as did the more affluent middle class girls.

I became a professional, married a professional and my own children had a comfortable, middle class upbringing in a large house.

That’s an interesting angle. But if I may say, a very white one. It’s sad to say, but that belief doesn’t just come from class privilege.

That doesn't really make much sense. My DH is very culturally minded, travels a lot, knows lots about history/culture, reads books constantly, writes, and is also a big football fan 🤷🏼‍♀️

I know I am middle class because I believe educational, legal and medical institutions are there to serve me not there to get me.

We live in the poshest road in the town, run a successful business, cook every meal from scratch and read The Times.

@SoupChicken - now really want to know why Rod Stewart was exempt!

They just know

How can you be spotted? Accent?

Are you my mum? 🤣

Other things she considered ‘common’ as well as Sky and ITV included (but not limited to):

Package holidays
Vauxhall cars
Ford cars, especially Mondeo
Trainers
Theme parks
Chain restaurants
Nightclubs
White bread
Sweets
Oven chips
Any kind of pop music except Rod Stewart
Smartly decorated houses
Shoes made from anything but leather
Air fresheners

She definitely thought Hyacinth Bucket was some sort of role model 😬

Any decent school has staff with their own children in it.

I do not know anyone who works in the school their children attend, it’s frowned upon to live too close to the school you work in because it can blur professional/personal lines.

Rubbish. I work at the school my children attend. The deputy head also has 2 children at the school, and I can think of 3 other Teachers and a couple of TA's whose children also attend . It isn't even remotely "frowned upon" and no one cares how close you live to the school where you work. As long as you declare any personal relationships you have with school families and maintain your professionalism when dealing with any incidents it's a complete non-issue. It's been the same in every school I've worked in.

What do you mean by "cultural clout" exactly. I could understand if you meant economic clout.

So why is mn full of people protesting about how wc they are as if it confers some special virtue?

I don't worry at all tyvm. Solid mc all the way.

It is not having Sky or watching ITV! Admittedly these are the standards of 25 years ago

What I really hate about this, is straight, white, able-bodied men using the "working class card" to claim that they are under privileged, even when they aren't. I know several men like this. Maybe you grew up working class, but if you're sixty and a successful academic at an elite university who's reached the rank of professor, I don't think your experience is on a par with racism, or sexism. I think you are rather clutching at straws.

Middle class in my mind would be a nice house with an annual holiday, professional jobs probably between the 40-80k salary. They might enjoy some 'high brow' pursuits but I would not say that is mandatory for the middle class. I think people can easily become middle class. Upper middle class and above is probably less about the salary and house and more about family wealth and upbringing.

Come off it, its purely semantics. If a teacher is on 50k p.a. they will work 41 weeks p.a. which equates to 11 weeks off. Plus May Day. My contract in the private sector, which I believe is reasonably typical is 50K with 5 weeks plus 8 BH.
So 6 weeks 3 days. You work 205, I work 227.

You get 50k / 205 days = £243.90 per day
I get £50k / 227 days = £220.26 per day.

So either you say that your salary is for less days, or that your job provides more holiday. If the 22 day difference between our holiday allowance is truly unpaid, your salary would be £50k - (£220.26 x 22) = £45,154.28.

Pure

@Notmyuser

Also you’re giving a starting salary of 21k from 13 years ago… while criticising me for saying what my parents have retired on more recently and what my other family/friends in their 30s are currently getting/benefitting from. And I’ve given the pay scales for what a starting salary for a teacher is TODAY - £28,000.

Some of the teachers I know live near the schools, some a considerable distance away, depends on the criteria for entry - most prioritise children of staff and there are a lot of perks not to mention logistically easier. Only one of the teachers I know is in a private setting, the rest state or grammar.

SunnyUpland

I feel both. You cannot argue with how I feel.

@Notmyuser I have a disabled child and need to wfh and have more flexibility. But I would love to teach so perhaps I will at a later point, though likely to be higher Ed or secondary.