What makes you middle class?

Actually that's a very good analysis!
It makes me realise that at least one facet of me is more middle class than I think (I don't generally think of myself as middle class) as if I'm shopping I sort of hide the tins and cheap bread at the bottom of the basket, and make sure the fresh fruit & veg and fair trade tea are visible at the top, in case I bump into someone I know 🤭

This explains a lot actually 😂Having just been on holiday for a week with family which involved sharing a hire car, DH and I found it continually hilarious that our relatives would look totally confused, bordering on angry, when DH drove (I currently can't for medical conditions) and I automatically got in the front, leaving my male relative to sit in the back with his wife, and even more so, when the male relative took the driving seat and we both headed for the back. This was so automatic and sensible for us, we just couldn't understand the reactions.

Social mobility is definitley real - at least to an extent. I have a PhD and work in a professional career where I am in a senior position. We live (with mortgage) in a typically middle-class area and our social circle includes lawyers, doctors, scientists and academics. We both come from similar upbringings which means that going home to family means spending time with shop assistants, cleaners, delivery drivers, security guards and relatives living in council accommodation. In truth, I don't have much in common with my family these days but that's not really important, blood being thicker than water and all that.

On the surface, I'm middle-class but I'm well aware that I'm really a working class person in a middle-class world. The main difference for me is assets and background. DH and I have a decent income and we scrimp and save to put as much of that as we can into savings every month. Our savings pot is still nowhere near what our friends have and if one of our jobs were to disappear we'd be in trouble very quickly with no cushion nor family assistance behind us. We have friends who talk openly about inheritance and have expressed confusion at the fact that we are in our 40s with no grandparents left and have never received any inheritance. It's just an automatic way of life for them. I also know that we'll get nothing at all from our parents - no issues nor hard feelings there, it just is what it is but we are very aware that every penny we own comes from our own earnings and will never grow beyond what we personally put in.

OK, fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.
I'm a vegan, so wouldn't ride for animal rights reasons, but that's a separate issue.
I also definitely couldn't afford it. It's such an expensive hobby.

Riding is only posh if you also ski.
Riding only = not posh, loads of rustic types with a bit of spare land ride, or have a DIY livery that they pay for by yard skivying. Show jumping is as Essex as it gets.
Skiing only = not posh, loads of ski bums do the season out of a camper and pay for it doing bar work and mountain bike guiding or windsurfing instruction or whatever in the summer.
Riding AND skiing? (and being reasonably good at both as you've done them since you were 4). Posh.

But it doesn't take any energy when you're in it, because we all know about it without having to think about it.

*If you don't give a damn what anyone thinks about this then you're probably upper class. If someone calls round and you hide the food while switching off the telly then you're probably middle class. If you're working class then you've probably 'married up' or made a lot of money from your market stall or plumbing business.

*Lighthearted comment in case anyone decides to get their knickers in a twist.

😂 I think many of us are a bit confused about it these days. Society has changed so much.
You get the opposite situation too - people living in dodgy rented studio flats working on min wage, but eating sourdough and organic avocado. It's just not as clear as it once was.

What's working class life? Are your assumptions based on kitchen sink Ken Loache style films and Jeremy Kyle? The working class are a very diverse bunch . Considering there's millions that fall within this category, what on earth makes you think there is one type of working class life.

I'm sat in our 5-bed rural detached house eating tinned spaghetti on cheapo white toast, washed down with freshly brewed coffee, and half watching Homes Under The Hammer, wondering what class I'm supposed to be.

I guess it depends on the context?

Riding is not posh, it's actually a little rough.

That's true. I guess I was thinking more 'the horsey set'!
Equestrian sports are generally seen as posher I think. I guess I'm thinking more the upper class and upper middle too rather than average middle class - Zara Phillips etc.

On the shoe thing you are supposed to have a mat and bootscraper anc clearly in your own home you wear slippers.

Making a guest remove their shoes in England is considered rude. You are supposed to have a guest who wipes their feet on the mat! What does it say about your guest if they have really filthy shoes?

Lol you are definitely wrong! Very many WC people have horses, it is about disposable income rather than class. Plus lots of travellers with horses tethered to side of the roads, not sure they count as posh?

I think if you’re looking down and feeling superior to other people, definitely middle class.

Got to be honest, if I hear someone has horses, I do think posh!
Of course I could be wrong about that.

Horses are zero indication of class. Money yes, class no.

I don't agree. We just understand ours better than we understand others, because we have absorbed it forever.

There's definitely a class system in Ireland, for example. And America, obviously - those who are related to the Founding Fathers, WASPs, etc. Same with France and any other country that used to have an aristocracy. Bourgeoisie, anyone? We just don't understand the nuances, so we think there aren't any.

Very archaic reasons I'm guessing.

I did a gap year as an au pair in Paris. The family were anything but lower middle class and it was shoes off.

Yes I cannot understand it all. It seems like such a total waste of energy to me but there must be a reason for it.

@Notmyuser LovelyTheresa = haughty attitude, believes class (social status) is related to class (taste/ interiors/ dress sense), and looks down on others to anchor her own sense of self.

Class is intangible, yet British we all have innate ability to discern what class we and others belong to.

LovelyTheresa has classic lower middle class attributes.

People from outside England must read this thread and think 'what the heck?!'
The class system in most other countries is purely about job and money, and very much fluid. It's much simpler.

Can you only be ‘middle class’ down south if you are a southerner?

On paper my dh and I are probably some of the most middle class of the school parents; both well educated, high earners with professional jobs. Yet we were pretty much shunned by the ‘middle class’ / ‘yummy mummy’ types who I would say judged us as not suitable to be part of their clique before knowing anything about us!

We are both well spoken but from up north. We hit it off better with the ‘working class types’, fellow northerners and Europeans.

I found a lot of the so called middle class seem a bit snobby and reserved; you go around for a play date and are lucky to be offered a biscuit with your tea! Our other friends are like us, very warm and welcoming and feeding everybody!

I don’t like the kardashians or follow them at all. But you classed yourself as upper middle class because you have (quite literally) champagne taste on a Prosecco budget, yet look down your nose on people who wear expensive clothes that you don’t personally like, you state that part of what makes you upper middle class is your education; and claim the kardashians are uneducated; whereas in actual fact many of the most prominent members of the family are degree educated as well.

You are looking down on them as being below you - why do you think you are more upper class than them?

Based on your metrics; I belong to the same class group as you. University educated, professional career, likely to inherit, homeowner. Yet I’m not judging others; you are.

You say you are giving me an insight into “how a certain class of person thinks” as if you are somehow more enlightened than I am, or a different class than I am. Which class do I belong to? Get over yourself.