Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Neighbour has rented out our property abroad without permission!

470 replies

unsurebut · 19/03/2024 21:10

My father has a property in Spain. It's been in the family since the 70s as a holiday home. Until 3/4 years ago my father travelled there regularly and the place was occasionally used by other family. Then my father had a catastrophic stroke and wasn't able to travel for a while and the place wasn't used as much.

The neighbour there offered to keep an eye on the place in return for his family being able to stay there on the odd weekend/couple of weeks in the summer. He's a nice guy and has done a lot to modernise the property. My father then gave him permission to rent out the flat when it wasn't being used, again, for the odd weekend / couple of weeks in the summer, nothing permanent or long term and we were to be kept informed about who was staying there and when in advance of it being rented out.

Fast forward to this year and my father has recovered enough to travel. We've booked to go there in June, all very excited. My father emailed the neighbour, only to be told that it's not possible because he's rented the property out until January! Not only is this not permitted, we weren't even told! I am absolutely outraged and my father is very cross. He's emailed the neighbour to say that we will be arriving on said dates and that's non-negotiable, the neighbour has replied to say that he's away this week so will respond next week. Meanwhile, flights have been booked, all on the assumption that we were to be notified in advance of it being rented out.

There's communication between my father and the neighbour referring to the agreement, but no specific contract or anything, and the arrangement has worked well until now. I think what has happened is that the neighbour has become used to us not using it and has been renting it out far more than we were aware.

So what do we do now if he refuses to get the 'tenants' to leave?! Surely their contract with the neighbour is null and void because he doesn't have permission to rent it out on this basis? The neighbour DEFINITELY knows this.

AIBU to demand the people leave so we can use the flat as and when we want?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
inkblackheart · 20/03/2024 06:41

Hang on. Your dad is getting the rental income. The neighbour has just arranged the rental for him. You can’t just then decide to change the locks and kick out the tenants. You wouldn’t be able to do that in this country either.

Your posts made it sound like the neighbour was pretending he owned the flat and pocketing the cash illegally.

ColleenDonaghy · 20/03/2024 06:39

You definitely need Spanish legal advice.

From the tenants' point of view, they're paying rent to the landlord with the agent taking a cut, that's not dodgy so why would they leave.

CormorantStrikesBack · 20/03/2024 06:39

Yeah you’re not going to be able to demand they leave. You could ask them nicely.

I feel sorry for the neighbour to be honest. Your dad asked him to rent it out, admittedly for shorter periods. The neighbour has been doing this. Maybe it was a communication issue over how frequently it could be rented but it sounds very vague on your dad’s half. Unless he specifically said “one weekend a month only” I think this is on him. Has the neighbour been giving your dad the rent (minus a cut for his property management services).

ToriesCashBacker · 20/03/2024 06:34

Wow that’s beyond cheeky !!

femfemlicious · 20/03/2024 06:26

This is going to cost a lot to sort out. You won't be staying there for a long time. Has the person been paying your dad? If not then sue him.

The tenants are a separate matter. You will have to evict them which will take ages and be expensive. Its going to be very hard to unravel. You cannot change the locks, there are tenants there.

SheepAndSword · 20/03/2024 06:17

Hopefully the tenants are decent and didn't know the neighbour is renting on a basis which was not agreed.

January is a while away, do you know if the neighbour rented it for a year?

BarbaraWoodlouse1 · 20/03/2024 06:12

Sorry that’s happened. Some people hey, you give a hand and they take an arm. If they’d have asked, you could have split the cost. Cheeky and rude behaviour-so greedy! Yes, change the locks. They can’t be trusted. Taking advantage of your Father like that. It’s not on. It’ll get sorted.

BobbyBiscuits · 20/03/2024 06:02

Property law in Spain is hardcore and veers to the tenants side. There's a huge problem with squatting I've heard. You need to speak to a Spanish property lawyer. You can tell them to go but they could try and say they've a contract with this other fella, he could say he's your dad's tenant etc. without paperwork to prove this it should be straightforward but it still might take a while so act now.

PickledPurplePickle · 20/03/2024 05:57

Your Father needs to speak to a lawyer in Spain and start proceedings to evict the tenants

WinterFoxes · 20/03/2024 05:55

Surely you could deal directly with the tenant yourselves. Explain this was an unauthorised sublet you hadn't been informed about and that you need the flat from X date. Give a date at least two weeks before you need it.
Can one of you go over for a weekend to sort it out in person before the holiday?

SheepAndSword · 20/03/2024 05:47

I had no idea Spain prioritised squatters rights - there are too many unanswered questions here about the current setup, good luck with it.

MumMumMumMumMumMumMum · 20/03/2024 05:46

You need a solicitor, not Mumsnet

Definitelylivedin · 20/03/2024 05:44

I think your chances of getting the tenants to leave by June is zero.

Assuming they are paying rent and have a contract they are not squatters.

You can get a lawyer on to the neighbour and possibly get the rent money (if that isn't already happening).

I actually think the easiest and least stressful way out of this is to discuss with the neighbour a way forward. Accept this rental and make it clear that once they leave the property is to be left empty, at that point you can change the locks.

If you fight this it is going to cost you a lot of stress, time, energy and money. Sometimes acceptance is the best way forward in life. Even if it doesn't seem fair or right.

moonfacer · 20/03/2024 04:27

.

Garlicking · 20/03/2024 03:52

Under Spanish Law, if your property is occupied by squatters it is forbidden to:

  • Change the locks
  • Threaten, intimidate or attack occupants
  • Block access to the house while its occupants are away
From the link @Nonewclothes2024 posted.

Please read it, @unsurebut!

I've got to say, though, it sounds as if the tenants do have legal occupancy. Your neighbour was acting as your father's agent with permission. This will hinge on whether de facto contracts are binding in Spain.

Peaceful resolution is the first thing to try!

Squatters’ rights vs owners’ right: a common clash in Spain | CostaLuz Lawyers

Squatting is too common in Spain. Every other day we see a property owner on the news speaking about the difficulty of removing illegal occupants from their home. It may … Squatters’ rights vs owners’ right: a common clash in Spain Read More

https://costaluzlawyers.es/blog/squatters-rights-vs-owners-right-a-common-clash-in-spain/

Mix56 · 20/03/2024 02:22

There are water & electricity bulls.
You can see the consommation fluctuate if the property is occupied.
If the neighbour doesn't get the tenants out rapidly your father will have to threaten him with fraud/squatting/abuse of confidence/abuse of diminished capacity.
Also pay for your flights &/or alternative accomodation

RawBloomers · 20/03/2024 02:17

I would not assume that you can just kick the renters out. Your father had an agreement with the neighbour for him to act as the agent on the holiday house. From what you say, there is correspondence that makes it clear the neighbour is acting in that capacity. The fact he hasn’t done exactly what your father asked won’t necessarily invalidate the contract with the long term renters. You need legal advice from a Spanish lawyer.

Mummyoflittledragon · 20/03/2024 02:03

Gosh I hope you manage to sort something out and get the family to leave in January. I think it is obvious they won’t go before that.

Schoolrefusa · 20/03/2024 02:01

trekking1 · 19/03/2024 21:29

No offense but how on earth did you not see this coming 😅

This is harsh as her dad had no doubt what seemed a good relationship with the neighbour and must have trusted him . It's a horrendous thing to happen and it becomes a sad world if one can't sometimes work on trust .

MaybeRevisitYourWipingT3chnique · 20/03/2024 01:56

Josette77 · 20/03/2024 01:49

Your dad receives money but didn't understand it was happening?

It would be helpful to know if OP could clarify this: has the neighbour been passing on all rent receipts (minus his cut), or has he been pocketing them all himself?

If the latter, he's a disgrace; if the former, I can see how he quite probably thought he was doing a wise and kind thing.

MaybeRevisitYourWipingT3chnique · 20/03/2024 01:53

neilyoungismyhero · 20/03/2024 01:04

We have had squatters in our Spanish property for a year now. The police and courts are aware but despite a denuncio (type of warrant ) being issued they still live there and the local police don't give shit. Spain is a law unto itself.

That's appalling; but things are hardly ideal in the UK either. Successive laws designed to protect vulnerable tenants from unfair treatment by nasty landlords are ripe for exploitation by tenants who deliberately swing the balance of power completely in their favour - often just because they know they can, and the landlord is helpless to do anything about it.

There was a thread on here a while back where OP and her family were living abroad for a year (iirc - quite a long time, at any rate), so they had agreed to rent their house to an acquaintance for a specified fixed period. Not only did the tenant just stop paying rent after the first month, but she then refused to leave at the end of the agreed period, knowing full well that the owner and family would then have nowhere to live themselves when back in the UK.

There were several apparent landlord-haters on the thread who seemed to be gleefully telling OP that she should quite cheerfully keep paying for her squatter's utilities and repairs/maintenance to keep it nice and pleasant and properly homely for her (I think there were still regular monthly mortgage payments due on the house too), whilst the whole family was then left having to try to sofa-surf at friends' homes for the foreseeable future.

Aussieland · 20/03/2024 01:52

I mean tbh it sounds like the neighbour has been doing you a favour and you agreed to him renting it out and are now complaining he has rented it out… I feel a bit sorry for him

Josette77 · 20/03/2024 01:49

Your dad receives money but didn't understand it was happening?

Iunderstandto · 20/03/2024 01:35

I do have some experience of Spanish rentals. I would say speak to the neighbour to see who is renting it and what their situation is. From my experience, a lot of the longer term rents are actually people emigrating who are looking for something to buy etc. He may be able to ask them to move or give notice depending on the tenancy agreement. However, as pp have mentioned, tenants have a lot of rights in Spain and it is unlikely they will want to move in the summer when rents are sky high. People always try to get a rental place in the winter to run through the summer.
Do you have any other friends out in Spain who could try and help sort this out?
If you don’t get anywhere get legal advice and maybe someone will have to fly out to try and sort it out. Good luck!

UpsideLeft · 20/03/2024 01:08

If the neighbour doesn't get them out just move in to the neighbours house instead

That's what I'd do