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Original poster

Grey area of group holiday finances

364 replies

Lalalalala555 · 19/03/2024 09:35

Hey.
Looking to see what is considered 'fair' from external perspective.

Ive gota holiday cottage booked for three nights. Fr Sa Su.
Invited friends (two couples).
It sleeps 6.
So theres me and my partner, and then two other couples invited.

We posted in a group chat saying how much it would be each if they wanted to come.
We have done it so that its a set amount, as the cost of the cottage is fixed as booked already and non refundable.

We said it would be 110 each for them.
For my partner and i we decided we would pay a bit more (124).

After posting in the group, one of the other couples want to pay less as they dont want to stay the third night.
They want to pay 2/3 of the cost of 1/6 of the total (if that makes sense).

Its tricky for what is fair. As if they pay 80 instead each, then it means its 200+ each for my partner and I.

Its this wanting to pay for how much someone will be present at the property vs there is already a fixed cost.

Obviously it benefits them to pay less. And us if they pay more.

I don't feel its entirely fair that we would have to pay 3* the amount they pay, for choosing to stay an extra night.
They also will benefit from not having to check out at 10am on the Sunday, which would be the case should the cottage have been booked fri and sat only.

There was no clear consultation in making the booking, we did it after having had a few casual chats about the weekend but not with group consensus. As we are attending an event and the local accommodation had sold out. This one place came up months after so we just booked it.
Hence why we offered it for being cheaper for them.
We didnt know how long they would stay, but they had the option to decide what works best.

Thanks!

OP posts:
Original poster
Lalalalala555 · 21/03/2024 12:53

OldPerson · 21/03/2024 12:44

I think the "wow" is the complete lack of planning and communication. If you want to organise a holiday for other people, you have to be very clear you all agree on cost, where you are staying and for how long you are staying, and what you'll be doing while away. It never turns out well when one couple charges ahead and makes all the deicsions and bookings and then decides what other people will pay - when the other people have had no input into the decision making.

For instance - if one couple had told you they could only be away for Fri and Saturday night, because they couldn't take a day's leave on Monday - would you just have arranged a 2-night weekend for everyone?

Poor planning and communication leads to lots of misunderstandings. And so it turns out, the end of friendships.

I think you've misunderstood the kind of grounds of what's going on.

If your friends gauge interest to see if you would be interested to go on a trip with them and another mutual couple.
And everyone says yes.

Then. Following that.
If you get invited to go on a trip with your friends. And they invite you and say if you'd like to come it's this much. Weve got a cottage booked for these dates. Let us know if you'd be keen to join. Then.. Thats where were at.

OP posts:
OldPerson · 21/03/2024 12:44

I think the "wow" is the complete lack of planning and communication. If you want to organise a holiday for other people, you have to be very clear you all agree on cost, where you are staying and for how long you are staying, and what you'll be doing while away. It never turns out well when one couple charges ahead and makes all the deicsions and bookings and then decides what other people will pay - when the other people have had no input into the decision making.

For instance - if one couple had told you they could only be away for Fri and Saturday night, because they couldn't take a day's leave on Monday - would you just have arranged a 2-night weekend for everyone?

Poor planning and communication leads to lots of misunderstandings. And so it turns out, the end of friendships.

slippedonabanana · 21/03/2024 12:42

What's happening on the Sunday? Why are you so sure they wouldn't be leaving at 10 am?

sandyhappypeople · 21/03/2024 12:16

Lalalalala555 · 21/03/2024 11:19

The thing is, its a choice if they want to say yes or no.
Ie if you invite someone to a group day out at paintball and say its x pp if you want to come. The booking is made already and paid for and its upto people being invited to say yes sounds great. Or no thanks.

And then someone who originally said yes and turns round.
Actually, I've decided i only want to use 2/3 of the pain balls. Or I have decided to leave half way through.
Therefore i only want to pay half of what i agreed to and was told the cost pp was. Which consequently means everyone else would have to cover the bit they decide they dont want to pay.

Its like going to a restaurant ordering a pizza. And then asking for a partial refund because you decide you only want to eat 2/3.

Maybe that helps explain it.

They have the freedom of choice to say yes we'd love to come.
Or no, we don't.
They also have the choice to decide when to leave. They can make use of the access if they want to. Or not. They could just stay one night.

And with your maths we even did offer that. Ie searched did per couple night.
So 2/7,2/7,3/7.
So it was fair.
But even then they said no and said it wasn't.

I made the decision that I'm not comfortable with them paying 160 : us paying 420. As that wasn't the initial offer. And it isnt a fair ratio to me.

For them that is fair. And because they couldn't get their way they decided not to come.

In the meantime. Nice couple are coming. Are happy. Are excited. We're excited. They said they'll hire a car.
And they're okay with other people potentially filling third room.

It has been a headache dealing with it. So learnt from this not to have plan dependencies with them going forwards. Ie own space and finances no room to have debates because dont allow chance for there to be any room for differences of opinion.

Show quote history

totally agree, that's how it should work, just curious in this case why they backtracked on it? They obviously said yes, agreed the price, but then at some point decided they didn't want to pay that much, did they know it was three days from the start, or did they think it was the 'weekend' then realise that they were paying for the full three nights when they only could stay 2?

they might be really arseholey people but it just seems so weird, to agree then change their minds?

LAMPS1 · 21/03/2024 11:39

You made the offer laying out the price of the deal clearly
They accepted the deal with no conditions.
All good
But then, later on, they reneged on the deal they had previously accepted. … doesn’t matter what their reason was, it’s irrelevant. They let you know this by paying a shortfall on the previously accepted cost.
You stood your ground, quite rightly.
So they refused to come.

Looks to me that they were looking for an argument. The amount they were quibbling about given they had already accepted the price stated, and given they expected to stay all day Sunday, and given they would be doing no cleaning, was negligible.

Good you have sorted it OP.
Don’t worry about future interactions with them at family events. You can confidently stand your ground because not only were you in the right, you were actually being generous.

Original poster
Lalalalala555 · 21/03/2024 11:19

Scaffoldingisugly · 21/03/2024 09:19

I hope dh goes round and posts it all in pennies through their letterbox...

Lol

OP posts:
Original poster
Lalalalala555 · 21/03/2024 11:19

sandyhappypeople · 21/03/2024 11:03

I know what you mean, and i see your point, but they didn't really have a choice to stay three nights, as they could only stay two and the others by association could only stay two as well, so if you were to have pre arranged it all together, they would only have wanted to stay the Saturday and Sunday.

I do organising like this for groups within my family and it insanely difficult to organise more than 2 groups, especially when everyone has different requirements and some are more bloody awkward than others.

I think if they were enjoying the facilities on the sunday they should have paid up personally as it's no really worth arguing about, but I can understand them feeling resentful that they are subsidising the part of the holiday that they can't stay for .

It's like booking somewhere for a week and asking the other two couples who can only stay the weekend to pay equal amounts as you for the whole week, saying well you could stay for the full week! (even though they can't for whatever reason) at some point you've got to only expect people to pay for what they can use otherwise they ARE paying for your part of the holiday.

In the interest of fairness the best way to have done it would be to ascertain when the other couples would be leaving, and unless it was 10am on sunday then they need to pay the day portion of the extra night but not the overnight, essentially them paying 2.5 days

Total holiday cost: £740
(weekend only cost at a guess) £600?

So £200 per couple for the weekend split equally.
YOU pay half of the extra night £70
each couple paid quarter of the extra cost for using the accommodation on the sunday daytime so £35 each couple

if they want to go on Sunday morning:
You guys £340 (all three nights)
each couple £200 (two nights)

If the want to go on the Sunday evening
So you guys £270 (all three nights)
couple one £235 (two and a half nights)

TO BE CLEAR: I would do this if I needed to for people being pedantic, but I would never want to go away with them again!!

Show quote history

The thing is, its a choice if they want to say yes or no.
Ie if you invite someone to a group day out at paintball and say its x pp if you want to come. The booking is made already and paid for and its upto people being invited to say yes sounds great. Or no thanks.

And then someone who originally said yes and turns round.
Actually, I've decided i only want to use 2/3 of the pain balls. Or I have decided to leave half way through.
Therefore i only want to pay half of what i agreed to and was told the cost pp was. Which consequently means everyone else would have to cover the bit they decide they dont want to pay.

Its like going to a restaurant ordering a pizza. And then asking for a partial refund because you decide you only want to eat 2/3.

Maybe that helps explain it.

They have the freedom of choice to say yes we'd love to come.
Or no, we don't.
They also have the choice to decide when to leave. They can make use of the access if they want to. Or not. They could just stay one night.

And with your maths we even did offer that. Ie searched did per couple night.
So 2/7,2/7,3/7.
So it was fair.
But even then they said no and said it wasn't.

I made the decision that I'm not comfortable with them paying 160 : us paying 420. As that wasn't the initial offer. And it isnt a fair ratio to me.

For them that is fair. And because they couldn't get their way they decided not to come.

In the meantime. Nice couple are coming. Are happy. Are excited. We're excited. They said they'll hire a car.
And they're okay with other people potentially filling third room.

It has been a headache dealing with it. So learnt from this not to have plan dependencies with them going forwards. Ie own space and finances no room to have debates because dont allow chance for there to be any room for differences of opinion.

OP posts:
sandyhappypeople · 21/03/2024 11:03

Lalalalala555 · 21/03/2024 09:43

Ah that's interesting thanks.

Yeah it was we booked it for three nights. It was three or four months in advance.

The offer is come if you want. It's x amount pp.

It wasnt hey we booked this thing without consulting you on precise details and now you have to come and pay.

Its more like its a choice for them but heres the price if you are keen.

They will be using it the Sunday.
They also had the choice to stay Sunday night. Ie its up to them if they want to take Monday off and use it for the full time. Or stay into the evening on Sunday and use it as a base.

Also the cost for the third night on the Sunday was cheaper, and the cottage has two fixed costs of about 150.

And if they choose not to stay its not like the room will be filled by someone else on the third night.
And the cottage offers no lower occupancy reduction.

AND. My partner and i had said how much it would be pp.
Ie if one couple didnt come, the other couple coming have their assess covered in the sense theyre not being asked to cover for if there arent 6 people coming.

Which tbh i think is nice and decent of us to do.

Show quote history

I know what you mean, and i see your point, but they didn't really have a choice to stay three nights, as they could only stay two and the others by association could only stay two as well, so if you were to have pre arranged it all together, they would only have wanted to stay the Saturday and Sunday.

I do organising like this for groups within my family and it insanely difficult to organise more than 2 groups, especially when everyone has different requirements and some are more bloody awkward than others.

I think if they were enjoying the facilities on the sunday they should have paid up personally as it's no really worth arguing about, but I can understand them feeling resentful that they are subsidising the part of the holiday that they can't stay for .

It's like booking somewhere for a week and asking the other two couples who can only stay the weekend to pay equal amounts as you for the whole week, saying well you could stay for the full week! (even though they can't for whatever reason) at some point you've got to only expect people to pay for what they can use otherwise they ARE paying for your part of the holiday.

In the interest of fairness the best way to have done it would be to ascertain when the other couples would be leaving, and unless it was 10am on sunday then they need to pay the day portion of the extra night but not the overnight, essentially them paying 2.5 days

Total holiday cost: £740
(weekend only cost at a guess) £600?

So £200 per couple for the weekend split equally.
YOU pay half of the extra night £70
each couple paid quarter of the extra cost for using the accommodation on the sunday daytime so £35 each couple

if they want to go on Sunday morning:
You guys £340 (all three nights)
each couple £200 (two nights)

If the want to go on the Sunday evening
So you guys £270 (all three nights)
couple one £235 (two and a half nights)

TO BE CLEAR: I would do this if I needed to for people being pedantic, but I would never want to go away with them again!!

thing47 · 21/03/2024 10:39

@sandyhappypeople it's a 3-night booking and the cost is x. Everyone is free to choose whether they want to come or not, no pressure. But there isn't an option to pick and choose which bit you want to come for and how much you want to pay because the cost is fixed.

If CF couple don't want to pay x, that's fine. They can sort out their own accommodation, or just not come – which is what they've decided to do.

OP and her DH haven't been 'called out' on anything, they are and always were prepared to pay the whole amount if they had to; they are the ones doing the subsidising (paying more, taking the worst room), not the CF couple. The CF couple have thrown a hissy fit and are no longer going on the weekend break or to the event. They are the only ones missing out here.

EmeraldA129 · 21/03/2024 10:02

If it was a hotel they wouldn’t have to pay but the cost per room would be higher.

as it’s a cottage they should pay 1/3.

maybe say that you e checked & unfortunately no discount is available for not utilising one bedroom for one night so there is no way to remove this cost from them, unless they know someone that would like to make use of the room and repay them.

it sounds ridiculous that they would expect you & the other couple to pay more for the last night.

Original poster
Lalalalala555 · 21/03/2024 09:43

sandyhappypeople · 21/03/2024 09:29

In fairness op after reading all your updates, the only reason you wanted the extra night was because you two wanted it, the others couldn’t stay the full 3 nights anyway and wouldn’t have booked for that if you hadn’t needed it, so I think when working out the extra cost you should have made yourselves responsible for the extra night cost, or more of a proportion that £8.

there is definitely two sides to this and you should have agreed who paid what before you booked it, not just assume everyone would be okay paying for 3 nights when they can all only stay 2.

if I had access for the whole of Sunday the extra cost wouldn’t bother me personally but the fact that you’ve assumed they would subsidise your extra night is quite cheeky of you, so fair play that they’ve called you out on it and decided not to come.

Ah that's interesting thanks.

Yeah it was we booked it for three nights. It was three or four months in advance.

The offer is come if you want. It's x amount pp.

It wasnt hey we booked this thing without consulting you on precise details and now you have to come and pay.

Its more like its a choice for them but heres the price if you are keen.

They will be using it the Sunday.
They also had the choice to stay Sunday night. Ie its up to them if they want to take Monday off and use it for the full time. Or stay into the evening on Sunday and use it as a base.

Also the cost for the third night on the Sunday was cheaper, and the cottage has two fixed costs of about 150.

And if they choose not to stay its not like the room will be filled by someone else on the third night.
And the cottage offers no lower occupancy reduction.

AND. My partner and i had said how much it would be pp.
Ie if one couple didnt come, the other couple coming have their assess covered in the sense theyre not being asked to cover for if there arent 6 people coming.

Which tbh i think is nice and decent of us to do.

OP posts:
sandyhappypeople · 21/03/2024 09:29

In fairness op after reading all your updates, the only reason you wanted the extra night was because you two wanted it, the others couldn’t stay the full 3 nights anyway and wouldn’t have booked for that if you hadn’t needed it, so I think when working out the extra cost you should have made yourselves responsible for the extra night cost, or more of a proportion that £8.

there is definitely two sides to this and you should have agreed who paid what before you booked it, not just assume everyone would be okay paying for 3 nights when they can all only stay 2.

if I had access for the whole of Sunday the extra cost wouldn’t bother me personally but the fact that you’ve assumed they would subsidise your extra night is quite cheeky of you, so fair play that they’ve called you out on it and decided not to come.

Londonrach1 · 21/03/2024 09:25

They still pay 1/3 infact more as they getting out of the cleaning on Sunday. Cfs.

Scaffoldingisugly · 21/03/2024 09:19

I hope dh goes round and posts it all in pennies through their letterbox...

Original poster
Lalalalala555 · 21/03/2024 09:17

Ie so it wasnt an ask of can we pay less.
They just went on ahead and decided to pay less and see if they get called out on it. Or if we'd feel too awkward to say anything.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lalalalala555 · 21/03/2024 09:16

Update : i actually found out, that what really happened...
Was they transfered 2/3 of the cost to my partner. Ie about 80pp
And he then messaged them and said no. Its 110 for the trip.
And at that point they kicked up a fuss.
And said if they cant pay that, that we're unfair and they're not coming.

Wow.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lalalalala555 · 21/03/2024 09:14

ForNaiceHiker · 21/03/2024 07:58

i’d find it a bit odd if a friend paid £14 as a “generous contribution” on a group holiday. Seems such a small completely random amount!

Thanks. Yeah it is random i guess.
It just to be nice tbh so that the amount we said it would be for the others was a round number.
(740/6 =123.33 so we just rounded down to 110pp and decided we'd pay that bit more because we were asking friends to join us on something we booked. Rather than the group all quibbling over where to stay for weeks and then doing transfers at that moment.)
Ie we decided to stomach 13.33*4 ourselves so it was a nicer number for friends.

I personally feel like asking for exact portions of things can come across as a bit stingy.
So the logic was as we booked it, be nice pay a bit extra as we chose the place and to encourage others to come if its a bit less for them that's a nice thing to do.

It did not work out. Being kind did not pay off.

OP posts:
Stupidliefromfriend · 21/03/2024 08:53

They sound ridiculous.

Your question was "would you like to purchase this for X price?"

There was no expectation that they had to accept.

However they did accept... Then two weeks later tried to haggle on the price.

Ugh

Harley5571 · 21/03/2024 08:31

Lemonade84 · 19/03/2024 09:47

I think that if you book a holiday for the weekend, the price stands whether you stay for 1, 2 or 3 nights. It's up to them to leave early but they need to pay the total share.

This

ForNaiceHiker · 21/03/2024 08:00

@OldPerson I'd suck up the extra cost, because no one will trust you to organise anything, ever again, if the goal posts keep moving for cost

i can’t see this group of “friends” socialising agains after this nonsense let alone going on holiday together!

ForNaiceHiker · 21/03/2024 07:58

i’d find it a bit odd if a friend paid £14 as a “generous contribution” on a group holiday. Seems such a small completely random amount!

pollymere · 20/03/2024 22:39

If they are planning to stay beyond 10am on the Sunday then they need to pay a proportionate "late check out" amount.

They want to pay around £70-75 less - anything more than that and they can't do maths!

It's also worth noting that accommodation is often split so Fri/Sat are more expensive than a Sunday so £220 could be £90/£90/£40 for example.

I would look how much it would be for two nights Fri/Sat and work from that figure - or make one up!

I might give them a discount but it wouldn't be £75, especially if they're not leaving at 10am.

£40 discount if they are. £10-20 if they are not.

OldPerson · 20/03/2024 21:28

That comes under the category of piss poor planning. Don't book or pay for anything until all costs are agreed between all parties. A bit naive to start out by setting yourselves up to pay an extra £14 per person as a "generous contribution" and then find out another couple doesn't want to stay all three nights. Personally I'd suck up the extra cost, because no one will trust you to organise anything, ever again, if the goal posts keep moving for cost. Make it a good, but more expensive holiday than you were planning and be more organised and professional in future - or, assuming you only paid a minimum deposit, lose the deposit and chalk it up to a valuable learning curve in life. The reason being, if you are "resentful" about cost, which you and husband now are, it will impact the holiday, because every meal, car park fee, ice cream .... you'll all be feeling resentful that it's costing you more than you initially thought it would be. And you'll all be expecting the other couples to pay for the minor stuff.

Apolloneuro · 20/03/2024 20:40

Glad you sorted it out. Aren’t people weird about money some times!

Mnk711 · 20/03/2024 20:28

Lalalalala555 · 20/03/2024 12:35

Update: they're not coming any more
They've also decided after looking for somewhere on their own, they're not coming at all to the trip.

Other couple are still keen to come.
Have asked them if they're okay if we ask other people to stay in the now free room. And said we would run it by them before saying yes to anyone. And the nice couple said dont even bother - they'd love to meet new people.

I'm happy. Will be a great time if its the four of us.
And if other people come for the spare room that's a bonus.

All good vibes now with everyone going.

Great news OP, well done!

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