To think change is desperately needed in schools?

There are many studies confirming that infants and children under 3 have cortisol spikes (stress hormone) when sent from home to nursery even if outwardly there’s little evidence of distress. Worryingly the cortisol level’s remained high even after returning home. It is stressful to be removed from a known environment with people who love you to unknown carers.

I think change is desperately needed at home, before children get to school age. Nowadays, parents seem to expect schools to parent as well as educate.

This

But there weren’t similar crises during the world wars and that would’ve been much more stressful and frightening.

My dad, born 1962, was literally belted as a day to day punishment as a child

I wonder that no-one on here has thought seriously about the impact Covid had on the fast developing brains of children?

It added to the behaviour - which was already bad - there should be no excuses that Covid caused children to hit adults or throw chairs or start fights.

Well behaved children continued to be behaved

I wonder that no-one on here has thought seriously about the impact Covid had on the fast developing brains of children? Normality disappeared for so long under covid rules, from social time to nursery and school. Adults suffered from high levels of stress (and IMO we can still see it in everyday life now) - just think of the effects on children. Not disregarding other things but honestly can't see how we can ignore Covid.

I would say at least half of our school nursery cohort have some sort of ‘need’ with 3 on the autism pathway

@fuckityfuckityfuckfuck most people agree that from the age of 2/3 some nursery time is very beneficial for socialising, getting school ready, getting used to other settings etc.

But some kids (and babies) are in those settings 8/10 hours a day, 5 days a week and it is an awful lot for them. It's a knackering week for adults, let alone children. It also leaves many parents stressed and short on time.

I am not criticising parents who have this set up at all, for many it's a necessity.

Society has changed, the way many young kids live has changed and I don't think we can ignore that when talking about how things are in schools.

It's obviously not the only thing or even the most important thing to be honest- just reading through this thread highlights so many very interesting points from screens to lockdowns, to curriculum changes and funding. It's a mix of all of it and will likely take years to unpick and improve.

@Simmy76349 am I a career person? People at work might say I am I guess, whatever one of those is. I certainly haven't prioritised my career at all stages of my life though, although colleagues wouldn't know that. I personally can't tell the difference between a colleague with 20 years experience who took 5 of those years part time at some point for example and a colleague with 20 years full time experience. I think you can have a career and be a fantastic parent.

Belting kids!! For goodness sake. Do some people not recognise that a rare, small smack on the bottom of a very naughty child works quickly when all the gentle little chats in the entire world haven't stopped their bad behaviour? There is a huge difference between belting a child in anger and a small smack on a clothed bottom.

@izimbra but I'm not talking about situations like your own? I'm not even talking about children with severe mental illness. The examples I gave weren't even of teenagers. I was just giving examples of how uncontained some children are due to a lack of appropriate parenting which is not the fault of CAMHS

I think what's interesting about the podcast mentioned above is the increase of screens in school as a teaching tool, not sure how I feel about that.

I found this podcast really interesting delving into child behaviours and the impact of today's lifestyle and parenting on kids
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/happy-place/id1353058891?i=1000649518688

Its the Fearn cotton one with a child psychologist

Yet, I guarantee every single EYFS teacher would recommend nursery. And give plenty of anecdotes of the children who haven't been to nursery being the 'more challenging' children.

Wow people so quick to jump on anyone suggesting widespread full time childcare (40+ hours) from age 1 might be relevant in some way! I use nursery for my kids but absolutely agree that on a societal level, most kids spending the majority of their week in a nursery and then breakfast club, school, after school club for years is not great for child development. Yes people want careers - fine. Obviously though, it is a massive change in how children have tradionally been brought up and from the child's point of view, is less than ideal. Lots of kids are basically growing up being taken care of by young staff - who constantly change - in a institutionalised environment. People so quick to be offended instead of being able to think critically and wonder if this is really good for kids. Yes, it might be unavoidable for lots of parents but it is also going to produce kids with much less time with a main caregiver who they have an emotional bond with and from who they learn morals/ develop an understanding of the world. Nursery will be good for kids who have chaotic home lives but I think full time nursery is worse for kids who would otherwise be looking after by a loving family.member that the child is attached to. People so, so defensive and want to be offended. As I say, I use nursery but I can see how factory farming childhood for the majority of kids is going to change how kids behave.

It is linked to mobile phones as kids are used to short bursts of entertainment that constantly change . If we could teach a lesson in 60x 1minute chunks they may concentrate.

I strongly disagree. The children that have been at nursery or (decent) childminder tend to be much more independent, resilient and socially edept than their home-raised counterparts. They tend to be better at reasoning and problem solving. Better at turn taking and conflict resolution. More compassionate and empathetic.

Even if I wanted to be a SAHP, I would send my child to nursery or childcare to ensure they had the best start possible. And that has been true at least since the 90s. In the 50s, probably not so much because people still had 'the village' to support with child rearing.

Nursery is quite often the only positive influence in many children's development. Especially social development.

I’ve honestly wondered about this. I’ve definitely noticed a decline in my brain power. It’s like the brain fog I had after covid never left. I think I could definitely tick most boxes for adhd symptoms now but I know I don’t have it as it wasn’t present in childhood. Dh gets periods of terrible brain fog after having serious long covid. We caught it before vaccines became available.

Wow. I assume you weren't a "career person". Really you need to get a reality check.

I guess we were just really lucky to have such amazing kids and careers!! Lucky old us.

Your post brings back memories of people saying 'I wouldn't let MY child do that!' when my daughter who had PTSD (from being raped at 14) and BPD was aggressively and repeatedly breaching every boundary we put in place.

I remember going to CAMHS and pleading for help. Eventually the head psychologist muttered 'well that does sound a bit 'conducty' (ie conduct disorder), and referred us to the Michael Rutter Centre at the Maudsley, where we finally got the help we needed, and my daughter got expert therapy, only took two years of what amounted to living in an actual war zone - leaving my other two kids with a diagnosis of PTSD years on.

Every parent of a struggling teen knows that excessive phone use is toxic.

But the judgement and cluelessness of CAMHS workers is more toxic,

Parents of severely mentally ill children are on their knees. I'm amazed there aren't more suicides among parents because the suffering is unbearable. That's why I'm so triggered by posts like yours.

@Simmy76349 what do I propose people do with kids until they are three? There's obviously lots of different approaches. Both parents go part time, parents work shifts around each other, use family and friends for childcare, get a childminder, get a nanny are some solutions.

Most people work 40 years plus. If you did chose an option that impacted your hours at work it's a small proportion of those years impacted.

Ha ha madd me chuckle. I suspect what "must impact development" is having such a hugely judgmental and narrow minded caregiver.

Why are there so many children nowadays with SEN?

With respect, this is bollocks. DH and I both work. Children are 4 and 7 and have been in full time child care or school+WRAP since I finished mat leave. They’re smart, well mannered, understand discipline and boundaries and are excelling academically and in extra curricular activities. Why do you think both parents working had an impact? I think parenting plays a huge role but genuinely think whether parents work or not is largely irrelevant in this.

This is the dumbest shit I’ve seen on the internet today and I’ve spent 5 hours on Reddit.