To think change is desperately needed in schools?

I’ll be shot down for this, but both parents working ridiculous hours and not actually spending quality time teaching their children how to behave, eat at a table without an iPad, potty train has a lot to do with it. Some of those who do spend time with their children are constantly on their phones rather than communicating.

This is always said on these threads ad infinitum- but clearly it isn’t true of all, or even most parents.

Its daft to pretend that there aren’t massive structural problems in education.

It's parents that are at fault. 100%
No respect or consideration for others, littering, anti social behaviour, they don't have manners themselves so don't teach their kids either. Lazy bastards.

I think there’s something in this…. It’s a relatively recent phenomenon where we’re encouraged to put “MY feelings, MY boundaries, MY triggers” before anything else. Self care is so important but should go hand in hand with politeness and consideration- not at the expense of them.

I do think it is really hard to distinguish though if this is due to COVID or just how your daughter would've been anyway. For a lot of kids, COVID was beneficial in creating more secure family relationships as kids were with family a lot. I'm not saying all, but for a lot, esp those on furlough, that was the case. This has been beneficial for them when they're back school. The more secure the attachment the less anxiety the child has.
I guess it's my issue with the COVID thing, it's really not possible to know for sure if it's COVID or would've been the case anyway. Lots of kids are just quite clingy.

I think the kids coming through now have missed out on a large chunk of life due to covid. My daughter is nearly 8 and struggles terribly with separation anxiety. When she should have been in nursery, mixing with other children she was at home with me for 6 months! And then another 3 months during reception, plus countless weeks here and there isolating or not having enough teachers in school etc. Things weren't normal for nearly 2 years and I think some children are behind in their development from this.
Also some parents couldn't give a toss and if you mix the 2 up it's a complete disaster. I hope you're OK x

I dont know why we have schools there like huge daycare buildings now.
I never liked schools and im not keen on teachers either they always have their class pets.
Some teachers are bullies.
But for the few nice ones i can understand why they are leaving teaching.
Kids and parents have become so entitled.
And then theres the parents that think their child cant do wrong.
School gate mum friends planning play dates etc.
Sometimes I think whos going to school you or your kids.
Teachers tell a child off the child will tell parents they have been shouted at all day parents call it abuse.
In my area i dont know whos who at the school gates are they parents or the grandparents.

Thank you. My ASD teen has been violent towards zero teachers or students since starting school 10 years ago. Any time you see a thread on MN about violent behaviour it’s either oh they might have SEN and other half are saying oh that’s perfectly normal.

However, I do think many people who either work with or are parents to ND children do not understand the purpose of regulating and what it does for the child, because so many suggest screens as a way to manage the child’s behaviour. A screen is NOT regulating them if they melt down upon its removal this would suggest that child is dysregulated if they are lashing out. It might shut them up while using it but it’s not calming them. An activity that helps regulate them leaves the child calm afterwards. An example in our house is jumping on the trampoline. The sensory input is exactly what he needs in order to regulate. For another ASD child it could be something completely different.

In reply to PoorLittleEngland, My view is that if a lot of older people, say 30-50s, were on the medication which they should /could be on , a lot more of these people would be in full time work.

We seem to only have started recognising SEN children now with ADHD and autism, in the last 10-15 years - this means that all of the older people who have these traits are in the majority unrecognised and untreated. I volunteer locally and the regular workers who are there because they are, or appear to be, incapable of getting a paid job (anxiety, mild learning difficulties, trouble socialising etc etc) could be capable if given support and medication. But unless someone can advocate for them this isn't going to happen.

They have done long term studies into adhd medication and found no lasting effects. I don’t worry about giving my child adhd medication any more than I worry about vaccinations or calpol- it is extremely beneficial in its place.

(and my child was not raised on screens- I didn’t even watch tv with him in the room when he was small. And I didn’t have a phone so I wasn’t scrolling and ignoring him!

He has ADHD because I have ADHD. I enforce screen free time and exercise everyday -although he never stops moving so the exercise bit isn’t difficult!)

I think there’s many factors at play but I don’t think Covid can be downplayed.

Those who were too young to understand what was happening, so the earliest years of primary now, were deprived of crucial socialization in their early childhood. And possibly plonked in front of screens more than they would have been otherwise as nowhere was open to go to. Even seeing everyone wearing masks out and about, would have delayed their development in understanding speech and facial expressions.

Those who were old enough to understand lived with a prolonged fear of being struck down by a killer virus, or of their family members getting it. It was all over the news, it was all anyone talked about. Living with prolonged fear at such a young age WILL have had an effect on their developing brains. They also missed a lot of time in school, and got out of the mentality that it was just something they had to do. As someone who experienced fear over a long time, way before Covid, I can assure you it has a huge effect on your mind, and the after effects never really go away.

Not to mention the far reaching implications of the pandemic.

I totally agree that lots has changed! Society has changed massively in the last few decades. Who would dispute that.

And this is the problem in my opinion. That the world HAS changed but school and other institutions and expectations haven’t changed with it.

The way we raise children has changed. We are far more focused on wellbeing and children’s rights (rightly so) and parents in general are putting their children’s needs ahead of the needs of structures and systems. Of course there are feckless parents, there always has been! Not disputing that but to put ALL of the blame on modern parenting misses so much nuance. It misses the huge problems with poverty, COL crisis, the total lack of modernization in the education system, the advent of technology and its impact on the world etc.

But mobile phone use has increased and the software companies are now experts at hooking people into spending time online. All those crafty algorithms.

Plus the tv streaming - I keep hoping that people will get sick of watching stuff - who killed her the neighbour, the husband or the psychopath, over and over.
I struggle to find stuff now - perhaps it's too much choice.

On Radio 4 this morning they were talking about how fb etc use photo enhancing software so that you look more attractive than you are online. And don't need your permission to do it. Scary.

@bobotothegogo
I've taught in schools where a raised eyebrow and a gentle chat was all that was needed for discipline. Wonderful! Sadly, not all children are the same (as I found out in my last but one school). And 'normal' methods just don't work with some children.....

I'll PM you as it's a bit long. Essentially it's a cognitive ability test, than a OT type test that checks if they have a good pencil hold, can write in straight lines and trace patterns etc Parents and teachers have to feedback about social skills. Recognising syllables. For eg one of the tests has pictures of a house, a tree and a little girl. The child is asked how many syllables are in each word and they have to write the same number of lines to illustrate this. It's very similar to a full EP assessment with some bits of OT.

It's funny you mention trees. I moved here age 7 so went to pre school in Poland only. I distinctly remember learning all the names of trees, and having a test where we had to match the leaves the teacher brought in to the tree type. Same with birds. A lot of the EYFS curriculum there seems to be that sort of thing. The world around us etc. It sas interesting to me that kids in the UK didn't have that. I remember my teacher being surprised when I asked how to say oak tree in English.

As for parents, they're used to a very everything under one roof type of thing and they tend to trust the school until things go wrong. My sister is 15 and has severe dyslexia. My mum was adamant nothing was wrong as the school would say if there was and just use their ed psych and salt if there was. I had to explain to her that doesn't exist here! She's used to a very different system. If a child isn't managing in Poland, they get kept behind or sent to a special school. It's very embarrassing and parents do everything they can to make sure their kids keep up. The early provision for SEN is far far better. It's kind of flipped to the UK. The SEN provision there is bad the older the child is, whereas in the UK I feel like it gets better post 16. Anyway, I didn't grow up there so it's all anecdotal but for the most part, polish parents like that this system is less stressful but tend to be horrified at how under qualified and under resourced everything is. My mum was so shocked the senco isn't a child psychologist lol. She was also shocked parents aren't expected to buy anything in primary school and that books etc were provided throughout. It's not the norm at all in Poland, or the rest of Europe really. I do think not getting everything provided is probably a good way to keep parents invested. I think having everything handed to parents has made them really not appreciate a lot of what the UK education system provides.

Ive noticed a stark difference in nursery as a mum.

My first 2 girls were in nursery 6 and 7 years ago ( pre school nursery at their school) and it was lovely with zero issues, my 3rd girl started the same nursery last year and she has been scratched, bitten and hit on multiple occasions by multiple children and its an ongoing issue.

The nursery teacher who ive known for 7 years and has been the key worker for y 3 children honestly looks so stressed and frazzled all the time, she is the most loveliest woman but seems absolutely shocked and appalled by the behavior.

One child said something to my child that the nursery were so shocked about that the parents were called, the teacher wouldnt even repeat what was said but said to me it was "the most unkind thing she has ever heard"

These kids are 3 years old.

What sort of cognitive things would they test? For example are children of 6-7 expected to be able to read different words/count etc?
I remember seeing a documentary where an English naturalist visited Poland and the children in one school wanted to know the English names of specific trees ( eg oak/beech etc). He was amazed firstly by their grasp of English and secondly their thirst for specific knowledge.
I wonder what Poles feel about the educational experience in the UK?

Yes and all the “happy parents happy child” talk.
I mean if the parents are in distress then yes, absolutely.
But I see it used on here time and time again as a way to justify prioritising adult wants over what’s best for the child.

In order to start class 1 in Poland (age 6/7 depending on what parents decide) you have to be cleared by an ed psych. The test is free and available to all children and takes around 1.5hrs. It tests their cognitive ability as well as social and physical development. It's by no means a perfect system and its pretty overwhelmed with the influx of Ukrainian children but it is far far more than the UK has. Every school and pre school in Poland has an ed psych and SALT on site! National curriculum is developed by Ed Psychs and teachers with 20+ years of experience, not politicians.

@GoodnightAdeline I agree we are seeing major changes in parenting. The main changes are use of screen time even for tiny children, lower expectations of children tied in with the idea of being developmentally ready, lack of free play and run around exercise with even school lunchtimes drastically cut, and the idea we should treat children like mini adults.

Generally, in society, there is less focus on manners and being considerate of others.

@izimbra have you missed that OP teaches in a private school?
I have spoken to someone in my social circle who teaches reception in the posh part of our City. She says the number of children without basic skills has increased every year, These are children from middle class backgrounds, not children from a deprived estate.

It's a perfect storm, excessive screen time with content that fries children's brain, screen time being a lot more socially acceptable since Covid, cost of living crisis meaning fewer families can afford enriching activities and lifestyle, parents working around the clock, never switching off due to WFH and flex working blurring boundaries between private and work life, parents spending hours on SM rather than interacting with their kids.

But it's not just the children. Grown ups are behaving in selfish, impatient and anti social ways. Covid contributed but the digital 'revolution' is undermining existing social etiquette. I am concerned about what screen time does to people's and especially young kids' brain health. Very worrying.

I think there has actually. I know it’s fashionable to pretend nothing ever changes, that people and society have always been the same, but they can and do change.

Have you not read all the posts on here by early years professionals lamenting modern parenting?