To think change is desperately needed in schools?

And what do you propose should happen?

But that doesn’t answer why they start school delayed. The problem is there from the moment many of them arrive. Why?

This! It’s so hard to get anyone to see children now. Any support takes months or even years to get. Budgets are cut so classes who would have had 1 or 2 TAs 12 years ago, now are lucky to even have a few hours support. All the social emotional and behavioural needs on top too- it’s just impossible for 1 person to manage. You can’t support a child to regulate if needed because you also have another 25-30+ to teach.

I started school aged 4. I sat down all day reading and writing. We all did as we were told and no one asked any of the kids “how they felt”. We were kids and adults were adults

Someone mentioned a year 4 boy - so - a boy of 8 or 9. A child that age should be spending HOURS running around - how much is he getting really? May be arriving at school sitting down most of the day and going home and sitting in front of screens - of course he is behaving appallingly - this is no way to bring kids up. We have a mental and physical health crisis in our children.

And sad as it is for teachers, the first question should be to look at how children are feeling and how we are failing them - especially when they are this young.

But this has mainly always been the case hasn’t it? Why the sudden change?

Exactly.

I was shopping the other day when a small child started being really rude to me, telling me not to push in (I absolutely want), then pointing and staring and telling me I was mean etc etc etc. I told her to stop pointing at me and replied she was rude when she said I was really mean when I'd had enough, her dad raised her voice and told me not to argue with her as she was a child. Said child was pulling the displays apart and cartwheeling in the aisles also. There is no hope for teachers when parents don't parent.

I'd like to add a child focused thought on this

Children who are being violent at school are dysregulated and unhappy - we are expecting children to be completely sedentary for most of their day now from about 5 years old (year 1) - and focus on very very dull, sedentary skills of reading and writing.

It is totally developmentally inappropriate - and NOT how it is done in most european countries

There would be less poor behaviour if children were spending a lot more time playing/ running about outdoors with peers engaged in play based learning.

Our kids is boxed in, unhappy and struggling - and there will be some who are just literally not ready to sit down all day (and why should any young child spend hours sitting down - totally against our nature as mammals)

it's no surprise kids with poor regulation are lashing out - I feel sorry for teachers yes but I also feel sorry for all the children.

The dad went to work to provide for the family and the mother stayed at home. Not now. Everyone is on the want so therefore need two wages. The price of housing is out of control so again needs both parents working. I think this has a lot to do with lack of discipline in schools.

You're a couple of decades out there. There should have been no physical punishments in the late 80s and 90s. Caning was banned in 1986

My friend is a teacher. She teaches year 4. On Friday, she was called a fat slag. She also had to deal with a group of boys calling others gay several times.
Today, she broke up a playground fight and when they got back into class one of her class threw a chair and she had to step in front of the child it was aimed at. Luckily she batted at away with her hand but it could have really hurt her or the child.

This is all a fairly regular occurrence for her. She's been teaching a long time but she's exhausted physically and mentally now. She came round tonight to talk it through and she's in pieces. If it was an occasional thing, she'd be fine but it's a constant stream of it.

I think there a few reasons

• fast moving screens - these stimulate a chemical in a child's brain which creates a kind of addiction to the screens, they literally crave them, as a PP mentioned, normal social interactions just can't match up
• inclusion - there has been a huge push for this, when often it meets the needs of neither the child with SEN or those without. The concept was to improve understanding of those with disabilities, but unfortunately the opposite can be true. A child with ASD repeatedly hit my daughter and she was told to just put up with it as the child couldn't help it. My amazing daughter who had also been so supportive of children of all abilities in her class, became anxious and withdrawn and visibly shaken by this child's presence.
• the 'Google dr' - previously people mainly followed the educated advice of health professionals around toilet training, speech development etc. Now everyone is an 'expert'!

I really feel for school staff, their hands seem to be tied by so much red tap and political correctness.

Part of this is that parents are stressed - and too much screen use combined with loss of 'the village' - community parenting. Loss of doorstep play, children being out together playing for hours - with one parent at home to facilitate this. Now you have parents out at work all hours both of them - they come home they are tired, turn on the tv/ the ipad.

Children evolved to play with lots of other kids and have multiple caregivers - grandparents, neighbours, aunts - all of this is gone.

Belting kids when they were naughty was the norm then

I don't think people who don't in schools have any idea what it's like. They think we work from 9 to 3 and get "all those holidays". They wouldn't last 5 minutes in a classroom.

I described a typical day to my OH and he couldn't believe everything we were having to do. Over the years it's become much worse with no SALT, behaviour support services, very little EAL despite the increasing numbers of pupils.....I could go on and on.
Teachers and support staff are having to do all this on top of their normal work. I'm so glad I got out when I did - I put my name on the supply list but by the October holidays I'd got rid of all my school stuff as I knew I couldn't go back as supply teachers get even less respect than permanent staff.

Obviously didn't go to my school in the 80s

Is this connected to the pandemic which vastly diminished old fashioned play outlets, namely, communities where children grow up socialising. Now kids are in structured activities, playdates or screens, both parents stressed and working to keep lights on...

@Whinge my son is 4 and due to start school in September. He's on a (2 year) waiting list for an autism assessment, but his issues are mostly anxiety/a need for routine and to know what's happening each step and a bit of bother with dexterity (holding pencils, drawing etc) He is fully toilet trained and has been since just turned 2, can feed himself and (mostly) follows instructions. He struggles to interact with the other kids but chats to adults like a little old man.

When I have meetings with the absolutely amazing staff at his nursery they told me they have 17 kids to do paperwork for in terms of things like assessments, senco, 1-1 funding. They also said it's "refreshing" talking to us as we're on of the few parents actually engaging with it all and not in total denial there's any issues despite many being much more severe in terms of behaviour and things. The staff are saints as far as I'm concerned.

Definitely

I was kicked, wrestled to the ground, sworn at etc, before the last ten years, so it’s a longer term thing, but it’s very apparent that the rate of acceleration of poor behaviour has increased.

We had an exam in the hall and one boy jumped out of the window and ran off. His parents refused to accept that he’d done it, despite the evidence of every pupil and member of staff in the room. Parental support- none.

Also, children see that there are zero consequences for bad behaviour.
No more a clip round the ear or any threats.
Not saying they should ever have been hit, but it definitely was a deterrent to messing around.

Gosh you are onto something there.
Before recently it was just CBeebies for babies toddlers. But now yes they can literally watch YouTube all day.

It is a real life brain experiment. It is very worrying.

I want to third this. I'm a nursery nurse. Out of 24 children almost half have some SEN/SALT/Behavioural issues.
They don't listen, can't sit for a simple story. Potty training is being left till later - lazy parenting in most cases. No independence skills. It's never been this bad over the years I've worked in childcare.

Yep and teachers were respected; so were parents

Today there was a teacher survey published

74% have considered leaving education altogether in the last 12 months (up from 60% in 2022/3)
Only 7% would recommend teaching as a job to someone else.

There's a HUGE crisis brewing. Kids are wild, parents have low expectations and they also won't accept when they/their kids are in the wrong. Teachers stick in the middle between SLT/MAT policies and belligerent kids and parents, lack of funding, massive work load to cover your own arse on a daily basis and prove you're doing your job "right" constantly.

The wheels are falling off the bus