To think change is desperately needed in schools?

Forgive me - my memory of that time is a bit blurred. If masks didn't help - indeed, possibly contributed to cross contamination - then why was I forced by law to wear one to my husband's funeral?

I’m a child of the 60s, my own are products of the 80s. I can’t remember being scared of my teachers or parents; my children say the same as do my grandchildren. The thing we all have in common is we had respect for both our parents and teachers; the disappointment really awful behaviour would have brought to our homes generally stopped it happening. I don’t think I’ve ever treated a parent like shit, some parents seem to have a chip on their shoulders about schools.

Yes, but children could go out to work in a chimney. How many of those children do you think had their exams affected?

The bright kids did okay. The middle of the road kids struggled. The poor kids , we failed them. It was ableist and wrong.

Can you highlight the bit where you think it says schools (as opposed to school buildings) closed - other than for the duration of an air raid warning?

I love that you have posted information saying school attendance dropped when schooling was disrupted in order to support the argument that closing schools shouldn’t have led to a drop in attendance…

Lots of schools were closed in WW2, and there was a lot of disruption-meaning children had to be flexible, just like the pp said.

I do agree that young people having young children nowadays just don't know how to discipline their kids or can be bothered to do so.

Disciplining a child is hard work. Very hard work. Once upon a time, fear was the basis of discipline because it was easier and quicker. It worked but left kids damaged and confused.

Nowadays, parents use the excuse of gentle parenting for what ultimately is lack of parenting. It's easier to...in the short term...but much harder in the longer term. When the lack of teaching children boundaries, respect for others, consistent and predictable schedules, that life is indeed a matter of doing a lot of things that are not pleasant, and the value of delayed gratification lead to uncontrollable behaviour, parents then look for blame outside of the family expect others to deal with it. Education or Camhs and then get cross when it's not available to them. The problem is that a lot of poorly behaviour or anxiety and stress is just due to the poor parenting, not mental issues.

What is sad is that those children start their life already behind those whose parents are more understanding and prepared to put all the hard work in disciplining their kids. The divide gets bigger each year until adulthood when it becomes so much more difficult for them to adapt. They go on to have children themselves and no good role models...and the vicious circle continues.

Children went to school in ww2- in fact extra children were sent to boarding schools.

Schools were not closed in WW2

No it doesn’t. It sends a message that it was an unusual emergency where we all had to be flexible for a while. If kids managed to wrap their heads around this during WW2, why can’t they now? It’s a lame excuse IMO

@Notlikeamother
Omg no words to that ridiculous reply!

A lot of poor/neglectful parenting isn't because parents don't care about their children but because they don't know how to do better.

Where I worked it was mainly down to drink and drugs being the priority and SS low standards that meant as long as the kids were fed and loved - they stayed with the family: I’m not sure how low the bar is set to remove starving cold not ridden kids from the hell their lives must be on a daily basis:

If teachers stopped treating the children and families like shit (after all, without parents choosing the school the teachers wouldn’t have a job), the favour would be returned.

This is very true but I did teach at a school with a sure start centre attached. We ran baby clinics, parenting classes, mother and baby groups and father and child groups.

No, we didn't reach everyone we wanted to but we reached more than we would have otherwise. And we were genuinely surprised by some of the parents who chose to engage becaise we wouldn't have expected them to.

A lot of poor/neglectful parenting isn't because parents don't care about their children but because they don't know how to do better.

“I don't know any teachers who asked for schools to be closed”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/teachers-neu-shut-schools-england-lockdown-b1537611.htmlml

@SaffronSpice
So the logical next step from that is that every child and parents gets to treat the teachers like shit, like the teachers themselves somehow chose this or to close schools. Righto

No one in our area got online learning at all. DW school was in a different city, and they didn’t either.

It was very clear that school ceased to matter during lockdown.

“The entire school/education system is for their benefit”

Are you kidding? Have you any idea of what the education system is like today?
I literally could not agree less.

In fact nothing about school today is for the benefit of the kids. It’s for the league tables and the government’s ranking in comparison to the international league tables.

Nothing about it is about what is best for a child’s development or needs. It’s about jumping through hoops to pass tests to gain so-callled qualifications that have practically no reflection on a person’s true intelligence or ability.

@SaffronSpice
We aren't in Scotland so that is irrelevant to me.
DH did online learning from day one. Most teachers completely learnt a new way of working from day one and still you see them as the problem. Unbelievable.
I don't know any teachers who asked for schools to be closed, you are aware they are the ones subsequently dealing with the effects of it in schools and the slide in educational standards?
Unfortunately he was unable to go around to the houses of the 150 kids he teaches and make sure they we're actually present in the online lessons and doing the follow up, I imagine he thought their parents would be doing that seeing as that's is actually their responsibility

Closing schools and then providing very limited, or no, alternative work which was unmarked, sends a very clear message that education is not important.

As for the complaint about pushing for children to wear masks everywhere - surely that's something that should be taken up with the medics and scientists if you think that the advice was wrong?

Scientists said it wouldn’t help, even the Scottish Government report at the time said it might increase infection through cross contamination. It was EIS who pushed Sturgeon on masks (including outside at pickup for which there was absolutely not even suggestion of any evidence but Swinney threw it in off the cuff for EIS)

Covid did also break down the social contract between families and schools. In a previous life I worked on humanitarian crises and education. The mantra was- keep the schools open. Even if they're being targeted. Because they're such a crucial part of the social makeup of communities, once you take them away there will be consequences. Those of us who have experience in this area- including lots of disaster planning experts- said this at the time.

Now you might argue that it was necessary to protect teachers, communities and of course lots of schools never really closed. But the public messaging was such that you could only have this outcome afterwards. It's the job of policymakers to decide on these tradeoffs. Was it worth it?

Incidentally I don't think the teacher unions helped. Obviously their job is to protect members but they didn't pivot to 'how can we keep schools open safely?' until relatively late in the pandemic. Poor messaging, poor foresight.

Sorry you were hurt OP.

I agree fundamentally that everything has been cut so much that we are taught to just accept anything.

In Scotland at least, it was the teachers unions who were pushing for lockdown, pushing for not having to provide live lessons in lockdown, pushing for children to wear masks everywhere. If teachers unions are telling children their education doesn’t matter then why should it come as a surprise when they believe teachers or resent them?

None of what you assert has anything to do with teachers' unions saying education doesn't matter.