To think change is desperately needed in schools?

There's so much "convenience" related products for kids and parents now - is this impacting behaviour

• Tonies and yoto players so kids can listen to a story rather than being read to
• kids ipads/kindles and all the kids channel subscriptions
• games apps for young kids on phones (noticed this when I saw my friend in a cafe the other day her son was doing a letter tracing app on her phone with his finger and I thought she thinks it's educational so it's justified and I'm thinking that's not how you learn to write.
• packaged/processed food and snacks for kids - is diet impacting behaviour

Donkeys don’t breed racehorses.
Some behaviour will be because of additional needs but ultimately it’s ineffectual parenting.

@JudgeJ

Is it? Really?

Because, you know, we aren't lazy and ineffectual- hardly any screens, outside time, DC's cup runneth over with museums and educational activity and books. They are a pleasure to have in the class. They've also got 2x diagnoses and really struggle- not least with the poor behaviour of other kids.

It's not an excuse. They do have SEN and I really bloody wish they didn't. They also don't behave badly- the SEN = poor behaviour is a pretty tedious equivalence.

Their school has also lost 16 staff members since 2018. Pretty sure that's big on the reasons things are so tough.

Just following my last message, why is this happening? Why are so many kids dysregualted at school, is there an increase in SEN or behavioural problems? I went to a 4 year olds birthday party last summer and noticed how aggressive & deliberately unkind so many of the kids were & the parents weren't watching, or bothered. One kid picked up a metal pole & was swinging it at a play tent with kids inside who were crying. He was intent on hurting them. The mum only came over because I told him off & she just said "oh he's a bit boisterous", didn't take the pole off him. 20 mins later he whacks the birthday boy in the face with the pole and cuts his lip open. Unbelievable. Are parents turning a blind eye to bad behaviour? Are kids more desensitised to aggressive behaviour?

• is it too much screen time?
• kids in childcare earlier and for longer days - 2 parents working
• change in parenting styles
• different family setups
• more anxious/ stressed parents - is this impacting child's feelings & behaviour
• tired parents giving in to kids demands
• the increase in young kids using ipads, games consoles, phones
• kids exposure to violence happening from young age
• poor diet?

There must be a reason

Screens. Has to be. There were always some very poor parents but screen use has created a tidal wave of unacceptable behaviour across all demographics. I think it was happening before covid but covid made it completely acceptable to rely on screens for everything. Before covid it was still largely considered shoddy parenting to stick a young child in front of a screen constantly. Now I know kids who’s parents will openly admit that they give any toys they’re given for birthdays etc away as the ONLY thing they will do in spare times is screens/gaming. Imagine that? Young children who don’t even know how to play with toys. My 5 yo has come home repeating completely inappropriate violent language learnt from kids at school who are gaming. There’s no hope. I think government actually needs to step in because clearly parents can’t be replied upon to be responsible. We have all been brainwashed to ignore the dangers.

Completely agree.

It's too easy to just blame it on one particular reason or another rather than just saying - actually, as a parent, you're just not doing a great job.

This. 12 years of austerity. It's shit. I see children being failed every day.

I'm mum to a 3.5 year boy who's 'violent' in school and I can tell you it's not from lazy parenting. I'm a SAHM and my son was fine at nursery up until the age of 3 but we had problems at home with hitting etc, then the switch to preschool set him off there and we've had incidents of biting, hitting, throwing, hair pulling. He knows it's wrong but lacks impulse control. He knows the different things he could do to calm himself down and yet he cant. Currently awaiting a SEN assessment. I've really tried everything. We don't own a TV, he plays outside in the park for 2/3 hours a day after school - we don't have any issues there (only does half days), advanced speech. I do recognize that he's hyper sensitive and takes a long time to settle & adapt to change, it appears in the last couple of weeks he's made great progress, school say they've not had any issues at all. We've worked with them to accomodate any request they've had. So I'm hopeful that perhaps he just needed time. Not all 'bad' behaviour is because of poor parenting and I've felt alot of judgement and shame from others over my sons behaviour.

It does make you wonder though, what's causing this to the extent that its happening?

I 100% agree too.

We can't even get into our local church because there are people coming in to steal who are pretty scary and the church folks changed the lights to new low energy ones which give me really terrible migraines.

Our community just doesn't work any more.

Since covid we aren't even safe in the park because of the dogs.

Life is just so hard for kids who want to do their best. My son is super well behaved and polite but he couldn't handle the stress in state secondary and I had to remove him.

He doesn't even play video games any more. We only use screens when we watch together and talk together. We're doing our best, but everything is stacked against kids now.

But they're not horrendous?

That's because it boils down to parenting.

It's not really got much to do with 0, 1 or 2 parents working. Nor on single parenthood. Nor any of the other reasons often touted.

But we're not allowed to point the finger at parents and say, "Your child behaves like this because you're just a bit crap," so all these other reasons are bandied about.

If you're a good parent then you're a good parent. No matter what your socio-economic background, your education, your intelligence level, your social mobility etc. If you're a lazy parent, then you're a lazy parent.

If I look at the children I've taught in isolation, it would be easy to say, "You behave like x because..." and insert any reason - cash rich/time poor and over indulged; single parent; both parents/neither parent works etc.

But the truth is that it doesnt matter what family set up/dynamic we can think of, there will always be another child/family who is the same but where the parents have made different choices and prioritised their child/ren and whose children won't behave badly.

I worked long hours as a single parent and a teacher. I still listened to my children read, made bathtimes a bonding experience, took an interest in them. I used to sit in the car when my young daughter had ballet on my laptop planning. I played with them, made dens, walked in the park, taught them to cook.

As a teacher, I always find the first parents evening of the year very revealing. Additional needs aside, I have yet (in 20 years of teaching) to meet a parent and think, "Huh. You weren't what I expected!" Good and bad, you meet the parents and everything about the child becomes clear.

I work in retail, and the amount of parents who don't engage with their children is unreal. The parents act like the children are a huge inconvenience to them, they let the kids run about, run under the stands, knock stuff off, spill drinks and food everywhere, the parents are too busy shopping for themselves, talking to their friends or on their phones. Even young toddlers are ignored and get told to shut up if they're crying, or if a young child is trying to show their parent something.

The threats parents make when the children aren't being silent and not bothering them, the way parents talk to their children, it's no wonder children act the way they do.

Children on my road talk like their parents, you have 5 year olds swearing like its normal language. I will however say that the kids play out a lot when the weather is good.

Not to mention the weed. The amount of parents who smoke it out and about, that carry it and you can smell it a mile off. Parents who think they're doing the right thing by smoking it outside their house, but in reality, the smell travels inside not just their house but their neighbours houses too. Surely that has to have some affect on small children's brains

Teens smoking weed everywhere, parents knowing their kids smoke it but don't care because they are all smoking it too.

I think there is a further problem that is something environmental, which is triggering develomental problems. I worked so hard to get my son the right start, but he had problems from 5 months old which were reactions to food.

The problem is that these things take a long time to spot, and by the time I figured it out, he was getting behind, and so started school behind and we've been running to catch up ever since. Now I've had to take him out of school because the school environment is so hard that he can't cope.

So I think there are a huge number of variables but they are all working against the kids and the schools and the parents.

I think everybody has to stop blaming and finger pointing and start working together.

I agree that kids need to be able to play out safely and have a parent at home, and safe schools, and not be babysat by screens. But it's going to need the whole of society to act to get to that place.

100% agree with this

And what do you even do with the child who refuses to do any work, says 'No I don't want to and you can't make me' when you try and engage them, who refuse to come in after break time play. And when they are in class are throwing paper balls around the room to try and score goals, or get up and walk out at any point (no TA either to check on them), or go to the sink in class and plug the plughole with paper to have it then overflow, who bottle flip other children's water bottles as they wander round the class whilst you try and teach a Science lesson.

I think if I felt there was hope, if there was support available, I'd be able to stick it out. But I know that it'll take years to turn this around, if it can even be turned around at all. I'm not sure my physical and mental health, the sheer exhaustion of daily behaviour managing, can continue to do the daily grind without hope.

But surely no family intervention and support intervention just means ineffectual parenting is being passed on to the children, an so on, the culture of ineffective parenting just perpetuating time after time.

We must be in the 3rd of 4th generation of this now, no wonder it's getting worse not better. The only thing that can break this chain is intervention. We had 10 years of interventions from the sources I mentioned and there were plenty more too. They were all stopped in 2010/11. So 14 years on here we are.

It’s depressing. I watched a mum and dad on their phones yesterday at a garden centre restaurant. They ignored their child who would’ve been no older than 5. He was left looking around the restaurant. Any conversation he tried to initiate was met with silence.

i have never felt more rage in my life witnessing it. The depressing thing is almost every single table was full of adults doing the same thing.

Our school is not too bad for violence, but concentration has taken a serious nose dive in the last five years. The addiction to screens causes bored, fidgety children in even the most interesting lesson, who then act out because they can’t regulate themselves without YouTube.

DD1 attends the school at which I teach, and the reception class parents are generally lovely and supportive of the school but some of the parenting is alarming. This weekend I took DD1 to two parties, at both of which separate parents asked me to
intervene and deal with their child’s tantrum because ‘they just won’t listen to me’. One was literally trying to get her daughter to put her shoes on but couldn’t manage 🤷🏻‍♀️

It's horrendous. I quit two years ago and I wouldn't go back for a big clock. I absolutely loved teaching and that is why I left.

Even before Covid I'd watch parents pick their child up from the Primary school gates whilst on their phones, nod at their child and then continue on their phones (talking or scrolling). It was so sad to see how some of these children wanted to talk to their parent, show off their junk modelling or ask about a play-date, but were basically ignored.

Let’s be honest. It’s because every fucking parent is on their phone far too much. Just walk down the high street or go to the park for a random sample of parents not paying attention to their kids.

In your world parents have zero responsibility for actual parenting? You expect the government to do it all for you?

Ineffectual parenting:
I talk to parents whose children are struggling in school - some tell me their child refuses to go to sleep at midnight as they're on their phone. We suggest they remove the phone but the parent says that ends in the child being violent and abusive to them. As parents they didn't have to buy/give their child a phone at age 5/6/7, or allow apps/gaming, but they did and then failed to put boundaries in place and then act on those boundaries when they were crossed. Now they have an older child who is getting harder to manage and puberty and teenage years are on the horizon; the parents have lost control and they're shrugging at school staff with a "what can I do?".

I've also spoken to parents who have split/divorced and don't want to be the 'bad' parent, so let their child do/have whatever they want. This parent can't bear for their child to be unhappy, or hear from the child that the other parent is 'better'. Guilt reigns as this parent gives in, scared that they're emotionally letting their child down by saying 'No'. This child never experiences disappointment and that the world doesn't end if you don't get what you want, whenever you want it. Children need to experience these emotions, to recognise them and develop strategies to deal with them.

I wonder how all these kids will cope as adults. There were kids I went to school with in the 70s that I would guess had SEN from their behaviour, based on what I've read on MN over the years but there weren't the diagnostic procedures that there are now.
Many have gone on to be successful adults, trades, and local businesses. more successful than me as a well behaved kid At school, they had to just get on with things. School life didn't bend around them.

Ineffective and ill judged behaviour policies from on high make teachers piggy in the middle between their SLT and parents. Don't follow the system: SLT on your back. Potential disciplinary action. Do follow it: parents belligerent and refusing to back you.

It's exhausting, constantly trying to just do your job, teach the kids so they pass their quals, so you keep the performance of the department up,.....trying to stay sane, keep things fun, do your job which never ends and comes home and still have some sort of energy for your own family.

After 20 years I quit. I was sick of it. Being answered back to, being unsupported, trying to do my best against the tide. I couldn't do another 25yrs to retirement.