To think change is desperately needed in schools?

You are not being unreasonable but the reason is probably so many neurodivergent children and so little support . As an example , small school where 19% of the children are sen . Yes classes are small but still lacking massive support

If I was to sum up the issue with school as a teacher it is resentment.

The kids resent every moment they aren’t on their phones. Not all of them but quite a good proportion are so addicted that they are just constantly pissed off that you are trying to focus them on something else. More than ever before I feel hated just for asking people to be polite to each other and have a go at the work. I’m not asking for the moon- just the essentials.

I get sworn at all the time. And the rudeness and lack of appropriate boundaries is so wild- just beyond belief.

I was going to say that I agree with this. Also phones, social media. Parents aren't always present - myself included at time, I find I'm on the phone just doing a food shop and then I've found myself scrolling mindlessly wasting time, I wish I could get rid of my phone.

Saying that, my husband and I parent the best we can, but without any family help we struggle at times and any time for us is at the bottom of the list. It's certainly a different era of parenting from how my parents looked after us.
Our children are fantastic though. We talk to them, read to them and deal with any issues. I know lots of parents at our school that don't really get involved much and it makes me sad.

Yes I agree @mathanxiety physical activity and being outdoors are key. As mentioned earlier my son is 3.5yo and challenging. We moved him from a nursery at 3 to a montessori preschool and he's struggled to go from all of the physical activities they did to 3 hours in a classroom in a morning, no break. We take him to the park for 2 sometimes 3 hours on an afternoon after school and it makes all the difference. We know he needs to get his energy out.

@hastalavista interesting you mention that about steroids. My son is awaiting a SEN assessment and we are struggling with undesirable behaviour right now. I took steroids for a blood platelet condition I had in my pregnancy. As much as they said the risk to baby was low I remember after he was born he had weekly blood tests. Every time I took steroids for my condition, I could see that my son was being impacted by them through breastfeeding because his platelet level shot up.

I’m curious, I’m a nursery worker and I often wonder if ofsted and the early years curriculum have some fault here, with the expectation for the staff to work with what the children are interested in rather than teaching them new skills or give them fresh knowledge.

I work in a recently inspected outstanding nursery, and whilst the children are well cared, their play is very repetitive, one group of children stay outside running around, catching each other, this can go on for many hours. There is no expectation that they come inside and take part in more formal learning or any other type of learning, there is no expectation that they will write their name, because they haven’t shown an interest in writing.
Staff step back because otherwise they are told they are being too directive. The outcome will be in 6 months this group of children will be at school with no ability to sit down and listen.
I understand the importance of play, but we don’t seem to stretch them any further.

At age 4, when I started school, the school day was from 9:30 to 12 noon. The following year, it was 9 to 3 with a half-hour break in the morning and an hour for lunch.

My memories of school in those days are basically memories of playing outdoors at lunchtime, or doing country dancing indoors on wet days.

We finished each day with free reading or drawing. In later years, we did handwork - knitting, sewing, and crochet. We also did singing classes and elocution.

Left and right brain are both important, and physical activity is a must.

I'll soon be 70 and can't think of a single couple of my wide acquaintance where both partners didn't work, and soon after maternity leave too. It's not new at all. I also don't see how both parents working means a child is brought up by "too many" people; it's not a given. Again anecdotally but all my acquaintance used childminders, then nursery, then sometimes au pairs, then worked round the school day.

Overall the risk is low. I dont want to scare monger.

Covid is still definitely having an impact. These are children who were locked down when they should have been learning to socialise and speak. Whose parents were also isolated from supports in early parenting due to Covid.

Not to scare monger and I'm sure this only affects a small number of people, but apparently the steroids they used to give to mums to strengthen the lungs of babies they thought would be born premature, well they think those steroids are now linked to things like adhd. Its worse if ur baby wasnt a totally born premature but you still had the steroids. Obviously its risks vs benefits but they are now saying it can be linked to later behavioural problems.

I quit after 17 years.
Poorly behaved children were rewarded with an iPad in the Head's office.
I was kicked , punched, spat at , scratched , but 'let's just be calm about it.'

I'm surprised anyone wants to work in a school. And don't get me started on the parents... that's an even worse ball game.

What event in the last five years might have caused an issue in child development???

It was noticeably declining 5 years before that though.

@GoodnightAdeline

What event in the last five years might have caused an issue in child development???

It's obvious isn't it?

It takes a village to raise a small child and children under 5 missed out on a tonne as did all children.

Children evolved to play with lots of other kids and have multiple caregivers - grandparents, neighbours, aunts - all of this is gone

Well they wanted woman to go back to work and created a team of nurseries and gave discounts to ensure woman worked and then increased house prices so you need 2 people to afford housings.

No wonder parents are stressed.

But that does not excuse poor parenting.

Looking round a classroom of 30 kids half with diagnosed SEN is the NT children causing the problems. Hitting, can’t share, boastful, parents are the first to say ‘my child would never’ no discipline at home, nobody reads to them or tucks them in at night.

It’s the parents who say their kids are angels at home so it’s a school problem would not take kindly to being asked to home Ed the kids!

I think your consistency point is a really good one.

This is a very interesting debate. What's really changed in the last few years are both parents working and child goes pillar to post being brought up by too many people... People who are too soft to discipline or not sure how to.

My child was described as "mature" by his teacher, this is because I put in so much bloody work with skills and I took a break from work for 5 years.

Today I hear of children pushing their teachers until they cry and then dancing on the table to celebrate.

There's more ND being identified, not more ND.

Why could ND children of the 80s and older cope (within reason and not without exception) but ND children can't nowadays? Many did and are now being diagnosed in their 40s. So what's changed?

My top 2 are:

Consistency. Generally, school rules and home rules were pretty similar. School, adults were in charge. Home, adults were in charge. No swearing/hitting/shouting at home.
No swearing/hitting/shouting at school. Follow adult instruction at home. Follow adult instruction at school. Parents expected you home at a certain time (no phones/alarms to remind you). School staff expect you to be on time.

Boredom = imagination and creativity. Kids aren't allowed to be bored now. Everything is stimulating. If it's not screens, the anti-screen parents can be just as bad with a continuous supply of insta-worthy crafts and activities.

There's been a systemic change in how we treat children. We no longer frighten them or hit them like the 80s.
It's far too simplistic to blame the parents. Students know their rights.
The education system needs to change because the curriculum is not fit for purpose. Many students are angry sat learning absolute tosh

Absolutely. And we got told time and time again to expect covid generation infants to be behind socially
And yet to my surprise, my 2nd daughter who was 8 months when covid hit, and her class in general, are a very sociable, well balanced, happy and independent group. I was talking with her teacher who said that in 10 years of teaching those was the easiest class she has ever had in terms of their social skills. Children from a wide range of backgrounds and abilities play brilliantly together. And whilst I fully understand this was a really tough time for many, I strangely enjoyed it. We had to stay home, so we had many hours of interactive simple play with her and her 3 year old sister. No rushing from music group to playdate to mummy's lunch to waterbabies as I had done with my oldest, just lots of talking and singing and a good settled predictable routine.
Our lives are usually so rushed and frantic that this time to really focus and bond was great. She talked, walked, slept and ate much better than her sister as she was given the timetable do so.

There us so much made of 'you must do playdates and baby signing etc etc, that the focus on the bond with a primary giver in first 18 months can get lost. Thats all a baby needs in their first year.

At a party the other day one parent was complaining to me she couldn’t get her child to do her homework, she was incredulous when I said my child doesn’t get a choice, when it’s time to do homework then that’s what she does, and we’re only talking about a 6 year old practicing spellings here, so about 5 minutes worth

The number of times I've had parents tell me their children won't read, practise spellings or do their times tables because they'd rather do x, y or z instead (usually device related).

They look at me like I'm an idiot if I suggest to them that they tell their child they can go on whatever device after they've read or whatever. It's like it's not even occurred to them.

The child says no and some parents seem helpless in knowing what to do next.

I was thinking through our circle of friends and which children are the worst behaved. Without doubt it is our friends who both work part time (as they are high earners) - they spend quality time with their kids, they do lots with them etc et but the things I've noticed is they never tell them off even when their behaviour is pretty outrageous and they give in really easily. So if we're out for a meal the kids will be running riot - there are just no boundaries.

I think they are sitting down too much at home(on screens) and sitting down too much in school. They need a vast amount of physical activity and they are not getting it. They are also driven everywhere, so that is more sitting down.

I’ve been pondering this for some time too. The stories my son comes home from school telling me are shocking. Not a week goes by without a story about a teacher being hit during a lesson or in the dinner hall or in the playground. I went to a comp in quite a run down area and this was unheard of in my day.

I don’t think it’s due to lazy parents, parents were pretty lazy in terms of parenting in the 80’s and 90’s. I do think screens have a part to play. We were all kicked out onto the street until it got dark. So we were running around, expending energy. Maybe it’s due to there being less stay at home parents too? I think it’s also due to the decline in corporal punishment in the home. Not that I’m advocated smacking at all (I would never smack my own), but I wouldn’t have been able to sit down for a week if my mother had been told by the school that I’d hit a teacher.

I’ve also been wondering about the exponential rise in neurodiversity. I don’t think that the rise in poor behaviour is due to inadequate treatment of ND or lack of available assessments as we didn’t have any of that in the 80’s and 90’s either. Is it linked to women having children later in life? Is it related to UPF’s? Is it due to micro plastics in our environment? I’ve read all these theories but can’t quite believe any of them.

They also don't behave badly- the SEN = poor behaviour is a pretty tedious equivalence.

I think most teachers understand this

Unfortunately, SEN and shit parents are not mutually exclusive.

I know it's a bit of a taboo on here to suggest that not all parents of children with additional needs are great parents but some children are dealt a double whammy of having been born with additional meets to crap parents.

Lazy parenting in my experience.

At a party the other day one parent was complaining to me she couldn’t get her child to do her homework, she was incredulous when I said my child doesn’t get a choice, when it’s time to do homework then that’s what she does, and we’re only talking about a 6 year old practicing spellings here, so about 5 minutes worth.

When my oldest started school I was shocked that most of the other kids were apparently allowed to watch YouTube unsupervised and the parents didn’t even think this was odd, when we’ve been for play dates I’ve seen other kids just turn the TV without asking and sit staring at it instead of playing.

I get the impression other parents would rather be their kids friend than their protector.