To think it’s very hard to live in the uk without inheritance or family money?

No inheritance here either. proper working class on both sides wit Dads working in the steel industry. However, Husband and I put each other through university. I worked three jobs so that he could study on a full-time engineering degree (lessons 8-5 most day). After he graduated and had a good job with high pay, I went to university, when my daughter was one year old. No support with childcare. We always had to pay for it.
I think what helped for us is that we held off having kids until we could afford to pay for the childcare which is now at a crippling level. I also think people need to be encouraged to look at getting better educated if they didn't manage to do so straight after school.

There are increasing numbers who hit mid or even late 30s not on property ladder and not secure in careers.

HE bad for not giving out permanent jobs till mid 30s these days - then in last decade attaching ridiculous funding expectations to them.

It why we had first to kids and then bought - DH trying private sector for permeant job and having saved the deposit ( mostly me prior to kids). We rented privately and we not near our families or reliant on them in any way.

I don't know anyone in my social circle who is living with Mum and Dad and then having kids - then moaning about struggle to buy. Is there data that's a lot of young people doing this?

Honestly we got crap from IL for not trading up like they did - but our first house we brought 3 bed - first time in position to buy I was 32 and DH 34. We hadn't wanted to wait longer for kids - me 28 Dh 30 - as there were grounds for fertility concerns which thankfully were unfounded - though we could easily have wasted another decade and started trying late 30 early 40s and then had to spend small fortune on fertility treatments with no guarantees of success. IL had seem to expect us to be a decade later but then instead of independent teens we'd have had very young kids (if lucky) when there health issues hit and they wouldn't have had time with GC - plus we'd have bought even later and settled later as pfb starting school was a driver for stability.

Most people I know who tired the trade up house ladder found themselves stuck as prices between property types increased - maybe in different areas it made sense but it seemed very dated way to proceed when we were buying.

Some graduates have always struggled to get a graduate job. A degree has never been a guarantee.

I’m guessing the uni kids are hoping they can leapfrog onto a higher salary post university, and some definitely do. However, looking at my dc’s cohort, the ones that did apprenticeships are in a better position then those that didn’t, and some graduates are struggling to get a graduate job six months on.

BoringBoris, you are correct. My late parents married in 1948, me 1950, no car,no phone, they didn't own their house. Late father disabled spine crumbling,no benefits. DM did a couple of cleaning jobs, I went with her school holidays. When my DM died ,he re married, did actually buy the house, when he died it went to the widow. My youngest DD is 32, I had 4 jobs, I went back to night nursing. I didn't want to do nights, but it meant not having to pay for childcare. In the 80s mortgage rate was 16%,my ex H was at one point earning £80 a week as a cleaner at Gatwick. I live in the south east, village,you can get a decent 3 bed not far away for under £300k. We haven't had a holiday for 15 years, been with my second DH 35 years, and only ever had one new car. You cannot guarantee inheritance, because proper ty might be sold for social care.

It's certainly the case amongst my own friends that it's necessary to have two decent salaries to live fairly comfortably, whereas our own parents were able to do so on only one professional salary. Some were even privately educated on this.

If the reasons why your DH doesn't earn much are temporary then you would notice a significant difference here. I think it's never been harder to be the sole breadwinner.

I think a lot of people are inflexible in what they're prepared to do, which I understand as nobody wants to spend the majority of their time doing something they don't like.

I mentioned on another thread a guy a know that earns £65k driving fuel tankers. I know it's not a king's random by mumsnet standards but it's a decent salary, especially outside of London. He's from a fairly disadvantaged working class background, very dyslexic, and had a criminal record from selling weed in his youth. A year ago he was making less than £25k driving a van.

But a lot of people seem to get degrees without really having a game plan and they're two a penny nowadays so I'm not sure it's always the best option unless you have a career path in mind.

I think possibly the biggest problem is a lack of secure, affordable housing to rent. I grew up in a council house and had a perfectly good standard of living. No chance of getting one now so have bought. Private rents are so high and it can be hard to get a landlord to pay for upkeep and you risk being giving notice at any time.

It’s interesting how things change between the generations. We have younger siblings/in-laws in their late teens to early 20’s and (although this is only anecdotal) they have never been encouraged to get a job at 16 so they can focus on their studies, went to university as they didn’t know what to do as a career and then went travelling to explore the world before settling down to get a serious job. So they are only really entering the world of work at 22/23 and are now worrying about getting on the property ladder. Even though I’m only in my 30’s it was very different in my circle at that age and we all had decent deposits by 24/25 as we’d all had 8 years of working and saving up behind us.

I'm perfectly aware that anecdata isn't data, which is why I linked to articles/ studies showing that this is not just a UK or London problem but a crisis in housing affordibility in much of the developed world. My nephew and his girlfriend are not the 'one example' I'm aware of (could you be more patronising?) but I decided not to bore you with the list of ordinary young people under 30 I'm acquainted with who are managing to live in the UK without inherited wealth. Neither my nephew or his partner are high earners: they're both earning around £40k, which isn't considered a good London salary.

I don't dispute what you say about home ownership etc. I was responding to the OP's title which was more specific.

More anecdata, but I'm pretty sure my family was fairly typical of many in the SE over the last 100 years. My grandparents on both sides married and then lived with their families until they could afford to rent or buy independently in the 1920s-30s. My parents, in the 1950s, lived in a rented, uninsulated caravan for four years so they could cycle to their respective jobs (saving money on bus fares) while they were on the long waiting list for a house during the post-war housing shortage. I'm another MNetter who lived in grim bedsits while working FT in the 80s (worked as a cinema and theatre usher in the evenings and weekends too) and managed to save the deposit for a very basic one-bedroom flat in an insalubrious area of east London. Interest rates of 12-15% meant I didn't dare turn the heating on for the first couple of years.

Don't fall into the trap of assuming that because things were easier for you, they were easy for everyone @mumpenalty.

It depends where you've living, and how you live. If you want to live in London with a house, car and holidays then yes it probably is hard. If you want to live where I live in the North West where you can buy a decent 2 bed terrace for under 80k (right by a train station that takes less than 2 hours to get to London if you want to work there for the higher wages) then it could be a whole lot easier.

A lot of people get inheritance from grandparents, either directly or via retirement age parents who aren't at an age to need the money.

I’m a third generation poor person (we briefly had some money when I was very little, but it was “go on a nice holiday abroad money” not actual wealth) and I think it can be hard but if you know the tricks of the trade it’s okay. Also having a big family helps because what they can’t give me in cash they give me ten times over in support. I think more goes into it than just income and inheritance or wealth.

The biggest factor is choosing the right person to marry/live with. We have inherited nothing but we’ve both worked hard and not done anything stupid. We’ve not wasted money on bad financial decisions or frittered it away on lifestyle creep. I know too many women who ended up with a bloke who thinks it’s fine to spend four nights a week and much of the weekend drinking/cycling/in the gym, and/or blown money on expensive cars etc. Their careers have suffered and some are divorced. I take my hat off to them because they have it so much harder than women whose partners pull their weight and respect them.

I’m not so certain it’s about inheritance (apart from for the Etonian-esque set). If it doesn’t go to nursing home fees, I may likely inherit (not a huge amount). And if it does happen, it will likely be in my 60s, at which point I will have already paid off my mortgage and won’t have nursery fees.

I agree, OP. A lot of people stand no chance of getting on the property ladder, particularly younger people.

I'm a band 6 nurse, my partner is studying a PhD. We're both educated individuals (I have two degrees), but without help from my parents over the years I'd have really struggled with affording a car, etc. We still rent, and play to buy, but it's only really possible because my dad will help out. My wife is struggling to find a job that isn't minimum wage despite being very intelligent.

Cost of living is ridiculous. It's very hard to save given rent, food prices, electricity etc. And we don't live a lavish life. We've been on two holidays in the 6 years we've been together. We don't pay for streaming services. We have a couple of takeaways/meals out, but that's about it.

The days of living off of one income whilst someone raises a child are sadly long gone. My parents bought a house for 80k in the 80's, and it's not worth nearly 400k. I'm pregnant and would love more than anything to just raise my baby for a couple of years, but finances means I'll have to work full time, as will my wife.

It does all feel very unfair. Even the fact that in my parent's era, pretty much everyone left school at 16 with minimal qualifications, and still ended up in good jobs. Nowadays you can't even get a simple admin job without them wanting you to have 3 years of experience and a certificate.

@Karensgoldleggings nobody is discounting people who work hard? This isn't a thread saying "everyone who owns a house is lazy and just inherited money", it's a thread saying "it shouldn't be this difficult to afford basic living costs without inheritance". I worked extremely hard to afford my house. I look at people younger than myself and acknowledge that even if they work just as hard as me, it will be more difficult for them to achieve what I have, unless of course they inherit.

so true.

Would you be able to have children and still live comfortably on that wage in a big enough house in a safe area, or is that not an option?

And also plenty of similarly expensive places to rent in other parts of the country.

Nonsense. I am an immigrant, English is my third language. I have zero inheritance, no family in this country.

I have worked very hard here and have a good income. I had zero headstart, I came to London with one suitcase and an A-Z.

Absolutely.
Its extremely hard to save enough for a deposit in a decent area to bring up a family without some form of family support, either financially or living with them whilst saving.

The alternative is leaving it so late to have children that there's a higher risk of fertility issues and ending up still bringing up teenagers at a stage of life when you should be starting to enjoy yourself and wind down.

If you are established work wise in your mid 20s and even better already owner of a property, then that's great and a good time to have children.

I'm talking about those with insecure jobs, and insecure accommodation or even still living at their parents opting to have children then and later moaning when they are struggling to save for a deposit and buying somewhere.

It is always going to be harder to save when you have kids. You're also have to bypass buying a small flat with the need for a 2 or 3 bedroom. It's inevitable that it's going to be much harder in these circumstances.

I deed the average age is getting older because more families realise this but there still many who don't.

I don't understand why most young people dont wait until they are better established, in their later 20s or early 30s to start having children.

Late 40's everyone I went to Uni with was doing that already.

People we grew up with who didn't do uni were mid 20s mostly and better off for buying earlier in most cases. I'd say same communities it is more usual to be late 20s without uni now.

The average age of first time mother was 30.9 years in 2021 - and looking likely to increase - biggest increase was in over 40s having kids.

Some of DH mature student made compelling argument that having them early is better as they are there and you build life round that - cut your cloth as it were- and if you don't have more later you have more time before retirement with children flown nest to build savings.

My family in the midlands and prices are too high there as well but SE - never bothered looking for work there as costs are just too high.

It's amazing how many posters on here in their late 40s, 50s or older who are saying how they managed without an inheritance so clearly its possible while completely ignoring the exponential rise in house prices compared to salaries over the last couple of decades.

To buy the house my parents did in the 1990s, I would need a 500k deposit on top of the max mortgage a bank would give me (300k). My parents absolutely did not have/need the 90s equivalent of 500k to buy their house. I earn now similar to what they earned combined (adjusted for inflation). They also had 4 kids, dogs and 2 cars. I have zero kids, zero pets and 1 car.

No amount of lattes, avocado toast or iPhones explains this away.