Autism in babies…

Both of my DSs have ASD.

Ds1 diagnosed at 14yo after me recognising indicators and pushing for assessment, nobody at all (including my DH) agreed with me, but he was well within the range for diagnosis. Also has dyspraxia. He needed lots and lots of attention took as a baby, needed me to talk to him or stimulate him all the time, slept pretty well from 3 months, weaned very well, was super sociable, but has always hated sudden noises.

DS2 diagnosed at 3yo and it was a slam dunk, very obvious. But he was a run of the mill baby, definitely cried (but not as much as DS1), slept well, but not as well as DS1 (through from about 5 months), could stimulate himself to an extent as a baby, fine with noise, weaned well, fine with all types of clothing. He just didn’t meet his milestones in terms of receptive or expressive language, and it became clear that there was a difficulty of come nature. As a baby though, he was run of the mill, right down the centre.

Yes, mine was the second type - didn't sleep (in fact didn't sleep through the night until 6 years old and even now at 9 still struggles to sleep), did not eat, lost loads of weight as a newborn, weaning was a complete nightmare, sensory issues from day one (hated hats and socks), very clingy - could not be put down Just generally very hard work as a baby compared to peers. She was also 'advanced' in terms of development - was the first in NCT group to sit, roll, crawl, walk, and was talking very early - subsequently hyperlexic. Looking back it was clear from very very early days. Diagnosed age 8 but on waiting list since age 6. Of our NCT group there were two that did not sleep, could not be put down etc and the other one has since been diagnosed with ADHD. I'd love to see some research in this area.

My instincts are agreeing with you OP and generally ND children will be more likely found on the extreme ends of behaviour rather than middle ground.

A bit too outing to go into detail, but when your 18month old child warms their own food up in the microwave along with a beaker of milk, then I'd say that was slightly out of the normal range.

There's the phrase ' when you meet a autistic person, you have met one autistic person' the spectrum is so diverse and individual.

My 2 1/2 year old is currently being assessed for ASD. He isn't an 'extreme' baby behaviourally I.e very good or a nightmare. But what is a key observation in his development is that he is globally delayed in all of his milestones and crucially his communication skills would seem ND. He doesn't interact in anyway even acknowledging existence of his peers or siblings. He has little to no verbal communication. He has digressed using words, shows some non verbal cues such as pointing but only to key people in his life. He has a strict routine he created himself and behaviours which are repetitive like closing all doors, to expressive gestures to emotions such as rocking to display happiness.

His approach to communication has been the greatest indicator. But what I found interesting was an article someone posted earlier on about delayed gross motor skills. Some of the descriptions did link to my son.

I think it's so difficult to diagnose early on due to the immense number of indicators. I was reading a Mary Sheridan milestones book and the list for features of ADHD or hearing loss were finite, however the list of autistic indicators filled a page!

I’m also not sure how helpful this poll will be as it seems a lot of the replies are from parents of autistic children who agree. But you would need the equivalent number of parents of NT children to respond to the poll to get a clear picture.

Hmmm I’m not sure. I have two NT babies. Oldest was talking in full sentences by 18 months and walking by 11 months.

My nephew is autistic. He fits the passive baby description you made though.

So I think you can’t use these markers as it can go either way.

As is frequently said, neither of these descriptions are absolute.

Interesting thread.

Didn’t take long for the ‘autism is a label’ bs to come crawling out of the woodwork. Autism can present differently in every person, some with and some without additional learning disabilities and delays. The fact is, there is still a strict criteria to be met for someone to be diagnosed with this disability.

Again, the fact that it is a social/communication disability that can be masked in the early years is what gives people like you the idea that some young people don’t need a ‘label’ if they seems adequately ‘with it’ to you. When these people fail to thrive/function in adult life, especially as they get closer to middle age, it’s the same people who are absolutely confused because ‘you did fine at school/uni’ 🙄.

I read the header and thought, nah, all babies are on the range of very easy to very difficult, you’re just getting confirmation bias.

But for what it’s worth, DD 1 was such an easy baby and hit all her physical milestones early (walking properly at 9 months, rode a bike first time she tried age 3) but slow on talking and potty training. DD2 didn’t sleep through until she was 3, didn’t walk until 22 months, couldn’t be put down and was constantly on the nipple. She had eczema and food allergies from when she was tiny though, so we put the sleeping and discomfort down to that. She was diagnosed aged 16.
We have never sought diagnosis for DD1, but has a significant range of autistic traits, all of them the opposite ones to her sister.

It would be interesting to see some proper research on this.

@PillowTrout Think there are issues with the blanket term ‘autism’ as it’s an ever broadening spectrum these days and therefore any behaviour in hindsight might be interpreted as an early sign of an individual child’s autism. I’d like to see them break down ‘ASD’ again into specific categories again - my eldest DD was diagnosed with the now rejected aspergers label plus ADHD and is typical of this category within the spectrum; youngest DS has autism with a high anxiety index rather than ADHD (but as a tech nerd, I suspect the borderline QB score means he might still be ADHD). I think DS is more Aspie, but it had been removed by the time he was diagnosed. They are incredibly different in their issues and presentation, but there will be a sex/gender aspect to this imho.

However, baby experiences were near identical. Both were in the second camp of behaviours you mention - couldn’t latch/breast feed - DS because he was couldn’t get enough milk/quickly enough, the other just couldn’t; colicky (my youngest cried from 12noon to nearly midnight, non stop); both lactose intolerant and still as teens prone to gastric disturbances; crawled by 4m, walked by 8m (apparently this means they may have missed a cognitive window that longer crawling periods create); both late talkers - a few words at 14-18m; speech therapy by 2.5yrs because couldn’t pronounce all the sounds properly and were still reluctant talkers (not the case now, as we get veritable TEDTalks when they get started on pet topics, vocab beyond their years [eg 15 level by 10yr] ); DD was a problem sleeper (still is) and cry down method was traumatic for all of us, DS would sleep all day if allowed - still would at nearly 16) neither really engaged in small world play or role play preferring independent play and were happy puttering about on their own; we were asked to leave ‘music with mummy’ as DD wanted to stand/walk and play her instruments, not be forced to sit on my lap. Personally I couldn’t see what the fuss was…

However, in hindsight, compared to my NCT group experiences my children were different from their peers even then. I often wondered whether the cluster of behaviours - not latching, colic, early crawling/walking, late talking if taken together - ought not to have been little pink flags on the developmental charts? I’d love to feed into a research project if anyone was doing one on this topic. I think the earlier ASD is identified, the sooner children and parents might get support, and the better the family experience and child’s outcomes. Have had to fight even for assessment and was fortunately enough to be able to pay for this privately after 4yrs on CAMHS and no appointment date in sight.

Sorry - can now see this was a long reply (yep, am also ADHD…)

Yeah. That might be why it's called a spectrum.

The more I read about autism the more convinced I am that it's a handy label slapped on SO many different experiences. The young people in the Chris Packham documentary were all so very different that there must be a huge variety of conditions in play.

I am autistic and the main symptom my family report is that I never smiled as a baby. There may have been others but they are too fixated on that one to tell me what they are.

When my eldest was born I started going to a lovely baby group. Very nice supportive mums and all our babies were born within two or three months. One mum was stressed. Her baby screamed constantly. I remember coming along one day and another mum was pacing the floor with him and told me "look we sent "Mary" across the road to get coffee and to calm down". The poor woman was at her wits end. He crawled really really early it was actually strange to see him flying along as he was so tiny and he walked really early but after that all his milestones were delayed. He wasn't toilet trained for school and massive speech delay. But yes the signs were there from day one as she often recounted phoning her DH the night he was born bawling that the baby was very unsettled and she wanted him to come back to the hospital.
Anywho also have a DS with asd and I had the opposite experience with a lovely placid calm baby.

And as I said, there is far more to it than simply how easy/difficult a baby you have. Missing key milestones when they come about is indicative of delays in some areas, regardless of perusing a diagnosis early.

My eldest is incredibly bright. If there wasn’t an evident familial pattern on top of speech delays in those early years, it’s likely we would have put aside chasing a diagnosis until he was older, as many families do when their child presents as ‘bright’ or academically able. It’s easy to put aside what autism actually is in the early years because of the huge focus on being able to get on with school work above all else. These children usually have far more difficulty in later life. So yes, it would be difficult to get a full statistical picture because many young people (especially of millennial and older generations) have missed being diagnosed as children simply for the fact that they’re bright enough to fall under the radar. Especially girls of course.

DD2 - diagnosed with dyspraxia (also affecting her speech) at age 4, very very unhappy baby but the sunniest natured toddler and child you'd ever meet. Diagnosed at age 8. Her ASD didn't really become as evident until her speech caught up with the rest of her development and you could find out the anxiety and rigid thought patterns going on between those ears. Her language processing and development was very much that of a gestalt language processor though when her speech intelligibility caught up with the content going on.

DD1 - on the ASD pathway (estimated wait still 2 1/2 years)... very very contented and chilled baby, very very early talker (has never shut up since) but very much the later end of normal for motor skill milestones. Her "differences" have been much more evident earlier on - things like lining items up and difficulty with imaginative play. Still a "flitter", hard to engage in tasks and very challenging behaviour from being a toddler onwards - she's a wonderful, funny, independent, intelligent pre-teen but by heck she's hard going in terms of constant constant constant testing of boundaries and going 0-kaboom in about a second.

I will add that my perspective comes from having an extremely high needs baby who was speech delayed, absolutely convinced she was ND, because of threads like this.

She's now seven and completely NT and extremely bright.

People should always seek help for their baby when they feel appropriate (and I did- I had private Salt assessments for her) but things that are anecdotal and unproven need to be noted as such.

@SpeedyDrama but it's only really helpful if we have statistical data on

A) parents who think baby/child is ND and correct
B) parents think baby/child is ND and incorrect
C) parents think baby/child is NT and correct
D) parents think baby/child is NT and incorrect

To my knowledge, there is no such robust study- happy to be corrected.

Otherwise it's all anecdotal. And for every parent who is sure that their baby is ND and they do turn out to be ND, you can probably find a parent who was sure their baby is ND but turned out to be NT.

I always had queries about my son.

He was a really relaxed baby - far more relaxed than his older sibling had been. He was quite content being left to entertain himself when needed whereas my first son needed constant interaction.

He was also crawling by 7 months and confidently walking by 11 months.

He was very slow to speak, but now aged 6 he doesn’t stop and has an amazing vocabulary for his age.

He used to hate certain sensations, like wearing warm clothes off the radiator, or putting shoes on and he would get very distressed. He would also get very distressed if his hands even got slightly dirty.

He was breast fed until he was about three but it was never a binding or comforting experience, it was purely perfunctory for him. Whereas with my first son he was never off breast and always took great comfort from it.

We had so many problems with his eating, really sensitive to some tastes and textures and he’s now been referred to a dietician (6 years old) because of continued issues with his eating.

He is very clever and does his spellings, maths and english lessons with the school year above his own.

He has so many quirky behaviour traits and fixations that I still have niggling feelings in my mind that something is just ‘different’ about him, but his childminder and teacher have both told me that nothing about him would give them any reason to think he’s on the spectrum.

He’s just an interesting character I guess 🤷‍♀️

Both my DC are diagnosed with ASD and ADHD.

Both were averagely tempered babies. Slept averagely. Both were walking (running) by 1. Both a bit speech-delayed and had speech therapy - DS1 more than DS2. I don't think I would have got therapy for him except there was the history with DS1.

DS1 had very little interest in other babies. We had baby friends who all bonded together and he played on the fringes, didn't care that we were off to see X, Y, Z, who all were best friends.

DS2 was quite sociable.

I do very distinctly remember a second birthday party where neither of them would join in the games or play with the others. I was in tears trying to get them to join in or at least stay in the room. I felt thoroughly incompetent. They were never any good with baby groups that involved group activities.

DS1 diagnosed at just 7 (referred for assessment in reception), started in a ASD unit at school in year 4. DS2 diagnosed at 10.

I have always said my ds was my reward for not strangling my dd. She is neurotypical but has always kept me on my toes. Ds was, in many ways, the prefect second child. He just existed as a happy lump for ages. 9m before he crawled. 17m to walk. He did have some sensory issues and food was always a problem but nobody really picked up on anything. I was pretty sure by 5 that there was something going on but he didn’t get a diagnosis until he was 12.

I work with babies and toddlers and I can see early traits sometimes. Occasionally I’ll pick something up in a baby and then by the time they’re 3, it’s gone. More often it’s around 15m I’ll be suspicious and then I’m pretty confident by the time they hit 3. in my role it’s not appropriate to actively raise concerns BUT if a parent approaches me (I’m very open in saying my ds is autistic) then I can signpost them on. I think I’ve got 5 kids (from 120) on the early diagnosis pathway currently.

No of course not, but there is also an idea that no one could possibly ‘know’ if a child is autistic before 2, like it just magically appears as a disability at that age. There are many signs before 2 in development milestones but unusually calm or unsettled baby are both factors in an overarching observation.

I think there is a lot of confirmation bias here.

I would like to reassure any worried parents that having a baby high on the scale of either being relaxed or high needs does not mean that there will be an issue.