Colour Blind casting

Ben Kingsley ‘browned up’ to play Gandhi (as apparently being half Indian wasn’t enough) so not the best example to give.

They are in UK historical dramas.

Because it's about under representation - plenty of none white actors could fill those roles - white actors are NOT under represented!

Exactly. It spoiled it for me (I'm mixed race). I did see it as an attempt at being as woke as possible. I never imagined Miss Potts as being mixed race, or Jean as having a disfigurement. It just didn't happen at that period, and I prefer dramas to be as historically accurate as they can.

When Enid Blyton wrote the book, the children and teachers in these schools were almost a hundred percent white and middle or upper class. I never saw a problem with that, it was how it was at that time.

It's great that times have changed, but trying to hitch today's cultural values onto a period drama just doesn't work.

So you’re saying that black actors should not play real life individuals represented in historical dramas from the regency period in the UK (unless they were one of the 0.1% of the population who were black)?

Because in that (ridiculous) case the race of the characters, and therefore the actors, obviously affects the role.

In my comments throughout - feel free to read the whole thread so that you can see how and why you’re being ignorant (deliberately? I do hope so) - I have said that it’s fine so long as the race of the actor/character is not relevant to the part.

Exactly. So why not?

Jfc read the thread. And the room. You’ve missed the point entirely. No one thinks that. Excellent display of ignorance.

Forget the Girl With All the Gifts it should really be the Black Actors With All The Benefits... 🙄

When You're Accustomed to Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression

Mirrors can't talk

People who walk around telling other people that mirrors are talking to them are like to be committed/ put on medication.

Or why does Peter rabbit have a southern accent - it should be Cumbrian

On what basis should he speak with a Cumbrian accent? Potter was born in London in an upper-middle class home so a ‘plumy southern accent’ would be how she told the tale. She wrote the story in Scotland (it was Mr McGregor’s garden) so if anything Peter should have a Scottish accent!

I've seen Keel Watson in the Barber of Seville. I enjoyed the performance very much, but of course opera isn't acting, there's no pretence at realism (what's realistic about every line being sung?). The performance draws you into the plot and your disbelief is suspended. Likewise if I were to see a Shakespearian play, I don't go into it expecting realism, again the performance draws you into it.

TV and film are different for me. Visual effects are a big part of what goes on - I've seen operas with almost empty stages for scenery, that would never be acceptable for a film. If Netflix's The Crown (as much a work of fiction as Downton Abbey) cast a black actress to play Princess Diana, would anyone be convinced?

I've seen period pieces use minority actors in realistic settings to great effect, providing a gritty, realistic depiction of the prejudice they would have faced in the era. Much better than pretending that the past was all happiness and rainbows.

What annoys me is healthy looking children with plummy accents playing poor working class children. Or why does Peter rabbit have a southern accent - it should be Cumbrian. There's a lot of bias going on. Skin colour is just one of many.. I like productions where diversity is brought in in a considered , high quality way. Not, as someone said up thread, when ethnic minority people play white people. I mean it doesn't bother me in itself but it's usually a marker for something that's not great. I do think representation is really important especially in kids stuff but it always seems to be black people rather than other minorities.

Albinos don't have black hair. I guess they could dye it.

I'd love to watch something about the 17th century black population of Liverpool. Also there's fascinating Chinese history in Liverpool. Great idea!

Having a black girl play Anna is great for little black girls though. Particularly with shows aimed at children, I think representation is more important than plausibility (and even more so in something featuring talking reindeer etc)

It’s theatre, it’s suspension of disbelief.

Our history is full of black history - the empire, slavery, we have black poets and play writes - Liverpool has the oldest black community in Britain dating back to at least the 1730's maybe we start with stories reflecting those periods of history. Or modern history ? We seem obsessed with bloody Tudors and it's been flogged to death!

During the Regency period only 0.1% of the UK population was black so fair representation would mean a black person would rarely appear in a film of that period. I also do not think it an issue that the UK entertainment industry has a Eurocentric focus. I would not expect Bollywood to focus other than India. Though there is no reason why Disney needs focus on European fairytales.

The reason why black actors appear in historical uk dramas is not to be colourblind; it is to try and distort the public perception of UK history.

I have a huge problem with colour blind casting for two reasons.

Firstly, it denies the lived reality of being a person of colour. No, a person of colour would not have been part of the aristocracy in Regency England. No, a person of colour would not have been a policewoman in 1920s Britain. No, a person of colour would not have been Prime Minister in the nineteenth century. Pretending this would be the case denies the reality of historical racism and essentially pretends that society has always been fair, equal and multicultural. It also removes the ability for people of colour to represent the reality of their own histories and ancestors in these eras. Many people of colour in the arts are starting to push back against colour blind casting for this reason.

Secondly, people aren't colour blind. We see colour. We make connections and assumptions based on what we're seeing. We know two white people can't give birth to an Asian child. So in a film where there is an Asian child living with white parents, I'm going to be assuming adoption has taken place. If that's not the case and I'm expected to believe this Asian child is the natural genetic child of two white people, it's going to be hugely jarring and impact on my ability to believe the story. If you want to cast an Asian child in a role with two white actors as parents, then you need to make it believable - that child being adopted needs to be part of the story. Otherwise you're once again denying the reality of race.

The real issue that needs tackling is the White Eurocentric focus of much of the entertainment industry. We need to be telling more multicultural stories and histories that allow people to play roles that are authentic to their racial background. Actors of colour shouldn't be essentially forced to play a white person. That's what colour blind casting really asks them to do and a lot of well-meaning people seem to think that's ok, when it really isn't. We wouldn't be ok with a white person playing a slave in 19th century America, would we?

Given up to 1950s less than 0.5% of the UK population was black there is clearly less opportunity for black actors in UK historic dramas. Is it ‘fair enough’ to misrepresent European history? Does the same hold true for other cultures?

Novel idea but maybe if TV and Film companies made more output about black British peoples experiences, including historical experiences - then black actors would have more choice of roles. As long as they keep making bloody programs about The Tudors (enough already) then colour blind casting opens up opportunities to none white actors - which is fair enough.

Do you think it would be ok to have white people representing indigenous black people in films based in Africa?

Representation is important, and there are talented actors of all ethnicities that need work. When I was growing up, there were no heroines on screen who looked like me or my mum or aunties.

However, now that there are some - which is great and much needed- I often find myself thinking "Oh great, I wonder what her back story is and if her experience is similar to my mum as an immigrant in 70s England", only to find that her ethnicity is completely irrelevant to the character or plot. Then I feel like a bad modern viewer, because of course I should have looked past her race to begin with! So it's a bit jarring.

I think there's a more fundamental problem that pp have touched on, which is that filmmakers seem to tell mostly white-focused stories. I'd love to see programmes set within different communities. I think and hope this is changing, slowly.

Agree. The Tudors is widely taught in schools, I don’t think having her played by a black actress is helpful. Otherwise, I couldn’t really care less, but yes, as another pp said, you can’t use a white actress to play Mulan.