People who don’t carry their bank cards with them

Device payment and contactless are exactly the same thing. If one works then so does the other.
Chip and pin is different. There is a chance that chip and pin will work when contactless is down for some reason.

However if the problem is something like no electricity then neither will work.

I doubt it would only be phone payment they were refusing, as if it couldn’t take phone contactless then unlikely it was taking card contactless either.

Exactly. That’s why it was chip and pin. 🙄

For me the worst that will happen is I can’t get my milk and wine, not sure it warrants a plan B 😂

I doubt it would only be phone payment they were refusing, as if it couldn’t take phone contactless then unlikely it was taking card contactless either.
Also too few and far between to be any kind of real inconvenience. I’ve come across one instance of system outage at a supermarket and that was all cards full stop, which is more likely that just the contactless falling (I can’t see how that would happen across multiple card readers, it is usually their connection that fails which means card processing can’t happen regardless of PIN or not).

Either way, if one shop is down the one down the road will still be functioning as normal. No biggie.

I’m very sorry but you’re wrong. I was in Tesco one day when this happened. No phone payments were possible and people were being turned away from checkouts. Because I’m old I had my physical card and paid using chip and pin. I know it happened so I don’t care whether you believe me or not.

l work in a London underground station all day and believe me cards often work when contactless on a phone doesn’t and vice versa. Personally, l always have a plan B .

Erm because this has literally never happened to me before so why would I bother carrying extra stuff if I didn't need to. I think it's obvious why people don't carry cards, for the exact reason that Apple Pay etc was invented

Not if the system is down it won’t. If the retailer is having issues with the machines it’s cash only. The only other instance (which is increasingly rare now) is places without contactless technology at all. Other than that there’s no reason why contactless wouldn’t work but chip and PIN would.

Contactless works on many ticket machines regardless if you use your phone or a bank card. Also says that they accept contactless as payment on the TFL website. I’ve also used my phone at the tube gates to pay by card and for mobile tickets.

There are pros and cons to both cards and phones. They are back-ups to each other however, ime people are more protective of their phones and notice it missing compared to their bank cards. Plus, if someone gets ahold of the bank card, they can use it without needing the pin. Many people have pins and ids for their phones so if someone does find it, they have to either know/guess the pin or reset it where the apps and cards information is deleted and the phone can become theirs depending on the phone. In some phones, guessing the pin wrong too many times will make one wait a certain amount of time before they can enter another in. Obviously different if someone outright steals someone’s phone while they have it open.

phone payments are not an “app”, don’t require signal and if they won’t work, neither will the card.

But it will. Chip and pin works when contactless doesn’t.

We’ve already covered the point that phone payments are not an “app”, don’t require signal and if they won’t work, neither will the card.

TFL need to update their ticket machines if they don’t take contactless. That’s very rare these days. I wouldn’t know as I never use them!

For me personally it’s an inconvenience because I don’t have my card with me all day every day like I do my phone, and I hate bags so I don’t carry them. Therefore I have to play “hunt the card” through my coat pockets and, frankly, I CBA. It causes me no issue or inconvenience to use my phone, so why do you have such a big issue with it? Even if, one day, it doesn’t work, that’s my problem, not yours….

Often cards work when a phone app doesn’t. TFL do still provide physical tickets but you need cash or a card to buy them ..contactless doesn’t work on ticket machines. Anyway just because you haven’t had a problem it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen ! Anyway this is pedantic…l stick by my point , what’s the big inconvenience to bringing a card ?

I worked checkout when paying by watch first came out. The number of idiots who didn't bring a card, we didn't accept watch payments, apparently it was my fault they had to go home and get a card. Also re PINs DH and I use a system of two numbers the same for every card ie 12 then the last two digtis of the card reversed. So each card has a unique number and we don't need to write them down.

And who is it that you think cares where you are or what you talk about? 😂

No one is actively tracking you or listening to you. However collected data can be used to target ads at you, or calculate the traffic for you on your regular routes etc.

My kids do this. My daughter phoned the other day to tell me she couldn’t get the bus as her bus app had logged out so she couldn’t access her bus pass and couldn’t log on to use her Apple pay either. No purse, no cards, no cash so she was stranded!

My post wasn’t in response to you…….?

Those cases appear to be more a matter of police procedural errors and the compensations awarded are definitely because of police procedural errors.

The police should know what laws they are arresting people for and if they don't know, they should seek advice from a senior officer, not just make it up as they go along!

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-arrested-after-trying-pay-27869286.amp

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tesco-extra-man-petrol-commemorative-coin-b1946155.html

it’s a thing.

Actually they can listen; my Google assistant sometimes pops up even though I didn't say the trigger words ("ok Google"). But they aren't monitoring you like that, yet. Search engines are very good at knitting together your doings though.

This. ^ No-one ever pays with £5 coins! 😆

Where does this happen, I've never even seen a £5 coin, where are multiple men paying for petrol with them? I really dont think that's a thing many people encounter

That's because you've "taken" the fuel, just like in a restaurant where you've eaten the meal. They can't be replaced, so there's a debt to pay for what you've taken/eaten.

A shop counter is completely different as anything in a shop is regarded in legal terms as an "invitation to treat" and the actual act of buying/selling is done at the counter, at which point the shop assistant/cashier can refuse to serve anyone for any reason (except legally protected characteristics), so they are within their right to refuse to serve someone who wants to pay in cash if they don't accept cash or by card if they don't accept cards.

I suppose an exception would be if, say, a mother allowed a child to eat a chocolate bar or bag of crisps in the shop and then went to the check out to pay for it, as, by the same token, it's been "used/consumed" so there's a debt, but I think in that case, the parent has actually "stolen" the crisps as they've done it without the consent of the shop owner/manager.

Which is why you get people (by which I mean men) who fill their car with petrol and then make a big show out of paying with £5 coins. Petrol in a car is a debt. Regular shopping isn’t.

Legal tender means something to do with paying debts then cash has to be accepted rather than general shopping where it can be refused