To think this is outdated and needs to be removed?

It's thrown around so easily that it's lost its power.

What do you actually mean by that? Do you mean that lots of kids are being suspended? What else do you propose the school should do with them? I doubt those kids went straight from model students to suspensions. The school uses detentions, right? I expect those kids have had them. Did that stop them misbehaving? No. Are you under the impression that there is some other, nicer sanction that will miraculously make them behave?

You talk about power. Schools have no real power to do much about the increasingly appalling behaviour in school. They use the only options they have, and it's still not enough. What do you think they should do, OP? What do you think would actually work? Or do you think they should just do nothing?

ballybean

Your most recent posts reinforce my first impression that you are incredibly ignorant about the reality of schools and also seek to minimise poor behaviour at every turn.
the examples you give of unfair suspensions were
‘Writing his name under a table’ - so you don’t think vandalism should be severely punished even though actually illegal in the real world. Would you really be happy with a school covered in graffiti?
fighting is almost always suspension, it’s very unfortunate for a bullied child you fights back but you can’t just let kids punch other kids with no consequence.
And lastly the sexual harassment one.
I can imagine it as it has happened to less robust colleagues than myself.
the teacher says 69 by accident and the next minute is being met by a barrage of questions such as ‘do you like 69s?’ - ‘what’s a 69 miss?’. The probability that that they were suspended for a polite giggle is highly unlikely.

They are minimising the staffing required. They still need supervision. Seems sensible to me

I don't think the glass room thing is necessary, but I think people may be overthinking the humiliation aspect. You surely don't think it would otherwise be a secret who was excluded from class? All the other kids always know anyway. Exclusion room doors aren't usually closed, and it's pretty common to have excluded students sitting at a desk outside a member of SLT's office. Other students know who's in detention etc.

I am not defending schools that exclude for trivial reasons, but exclusion is a necessary option for behaviour management. Many of the students in exclusion rooms in secondary schools are many-times repeat offenders and school has little other option than to exclude them repeatedly. Some even consider it a badge of honour to be removed from lessons. Many don't care.

Very true.

Apologies OP, you're quite right, I did misread your posts and incorrectly assumed when you said "he got them..." that you were referring to times in the isolation room as I'd missed the previous post about lunch time detentions.

You did still suggest detention as an alternative though, whilst then going on to say that detention doesn't work.

Like I said, I agree that punitive measures for minor infractions seem to be unnecessarily "nitpicky" and unhelpful, but I still think the pearl clutching about kids being seen publicly after misbehaving is ridiculous. They're not being abused, and if they feel uncomfortable, maybe that will be a deterrent in future.

Out of interest, how do you know that the purpose of this room is humiliation? Have the school explicitly stated this?

There are plenty of 1st world countries that can control/remove disruptive children without using humiliation which is proven not to work. I guess the UK really is sick of experts though.

The hyperbole is ridiculous on this thread. Disruptive children are being sent to sit in a room away from the children who want to learn. That's it. But this is being called barbaric and abusive. Really?

I suspect, as others have said, that the room is surrounded by glass so that the children can easily be supervised, as well as for safeguarding purposes which protect children and staff (either from abuse or allegations of abuse.) The humiliation aspect is a side effect, not the intended purpose.

Anyway OP, you have contradicted yourself several times on this thread. You said that your child wasn't sent there, then said he was a couple of times for tardiness. You said it was humiliating, then said that your son didn't feel humiliated. You said that it doesn't work, then explained how you helped your son to overcome his tardiness and he hasn't had to go back in there again. You suggested detention as an alternative, then said that you don't think detention works.

I personally agree with a PP that it's stupid to give punishments for things like a pin in the wrong place, or being pushed into another student, but that's a completely different conversation about how strict the rules should be, not what the consequences should be for breaking the rules.

My opinion is that fewer rules that are strictly enforced is a good balance, but again, different conversation.

@ZebraDanios I was kind of being facetious with the meeting room!

@Begsthequestion as a kid, I would rather have died than misbehaved enough for a detention. And thus far, three boys, oldest in Y10, and none of them have had detention either.

But as I'm clearly thick as shit - can you explain to me how a dunce's cap is the same? These kids aren't being put in a room alone because they are unable to write legibly or can't master times tables. They're being put in there because their behaviour is so bad they are impacting the rest of the class. As a parent of children in lower sets, where poor behaviour is more common, I'd actually welcome a harder line for those kids that are stopping my children from learning. If said kids find it embarrassing to be in a glass room away from their peers, maybe it'll prompt them to change their behaviour. It's all well and good saying that X is needed and Y costs money - but until those things are resolved, how do you actually suggest all children in schools are getting decent learning when there are some who are constantly disruptive? I mean, it kind of feels like you're doing a disservice to all the teachers out there who have tried all the other methods but are basically at the end of the line.

Reinstate Sure Start, early years interventions, family support, Children's Centres and adequately fund children services so they can support children and families.

It's no coincidence that funding for all these initiatives were massively reduced, then stopped, circa 2010/11. Now, 14 years later - the lack of family and early childhood support has created this monster - or lots of little one's, depending on your viewpoint.

Slow hand clap to the Tories who dreamt up these genius money saving ideas.
Thanks guys.

I'm with you op

Might as well get 3 dunce hats and stand them in a corner. I think it's wrong. Humiliating and does nothing to gain trust.

There's every chance with a majority of them it'll be a multitude of reasons, they haven't had any discipline from womb to classroom, or felt the love of a good parent, or just have parents that don't give a toss and as long as DC is in school/elsewhere but not under their feet causing bother don't see it as a problem and back them all the way because they believe in the old saying "anything for a quiet life", unfortunately it's only said parent having the quiet life until their DC decides otherwise then starts giving it large to them.
That's when they decide DC is no longer their problem and it's left to society to pick up the pieces while they play the victim and blame everyone but themselves.

By then it's far to late and society probably feel had the problems been weeded out from a young age the DC may have stood a chance to make something of their life.

So, what to do?

Firm discipline for parents of said destructive DC...
That'll never happen.

Gauge what kids growing up are going to be shit parents before they start breeding...
Nigh on impossible.

Society turn their back on shit parents stating they had their chance years ago...Now we're washing our hands too.
Again never going to happen.

This is so not what I've said. But you go ahead and make it up to suit your own agenda.

Because people like you lambast those who think these children and their parents have any responsibility for their behaviour, and people like you don't give a shit for those who are assaulted, spat on, sworn at or had their learning disrupted, unless you are chastising them for being unkind? 'Well yes Timmy slashed you across the face, but did you ask why?! How awful of you!!'

So why do you think some children misbehave then?

I don't think it's as unpopular as you think, it's just that on MN no child is naughty etc, they have 'issues' so are excused. If schools did not have to waste resources on the minority who constantly misbehave their financial position would be far better.

There’s usually some kind of excuse anyway. ‘Well yes other children doing this are naughty but mine is anxious/is misunderstood/I suspect needs a diagnosis’ etc

I bet it all comes down to money. Children are being failed as staff cannot split themselves any more ways. Then they quit as they know they're failing despite massive efforts. Which creates even more issues.

It's too much to go into here but it involved a culture shift and a lot of training. But I have seen the positive outcomes of schools that have embraced it.

I used to teach in mainstream and felt sorry for the children who behaved and wanted to learn.

Most morning there was a few children who knew that if they swore, flipped tables or threatened other children they would be removed from the class by management. Where to? Some member of managements office and given an iPad! Whilst the rest of the class did maths. Whenever there were any opportunities for gardening clubs or cooking clubs it was these children who got to go (I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be going) just that none of the other children ever seemed to get a chance, the ones who got their heads down, didn’t cause trouble and got on with it.

Lego Club that was another one “Miss Headache I’m not doing Literacy I’m going to Lego Club” said with a smug smile then comes back from Lego Club half way through a lesson and totally disrupts it as he doesn’t know what he’s doing as he’s missed half of it 😡

So while you're working on understanding the behaviour, how do you deal with appalling behaviour choices and the impact on others?

We have children who have experienced significant trauma, had years of support and still display hugely disruptive, violent and challenging behaviour that disrupts many classes each day.