To think this is outdated and needs to be removed?

Secondary teacher here - the kind of kids who end up in there won’t feel humiliated, they will love looking ‘bad’ and think it’s funny.

What is ‘humiliating’ about facing a consequence for rude / defiant / disruptive behaviour? To me, humiliation of a child is laughing at their additional need in front of others, or need to go to the toilet, or their lack of ability. It is not humiliation to put a misbehaving student in a room with a glass window. So what if people see them? Did people not see them when they were misbehaving in class? Did they not make a choice to behave as they did? I’m really quite sick of people not clamping down on poor behaviour that disrupts the learning of every other student and you’re here wanting to make sanctions as comfortable as possible! Perhaps the shame of acting like a bloody idiot might make them think twice?

It doesn't only depend on the ethos of the school. It depends on staffing levels as well.

I work in UK schools! It depends on the ethos of the school.

Can't disagree that some of the bad behaviour is from richer kids though!

Not in classes the size of those in UK schools you can't.

There isn't the money, time, staff or space.

Many others disruptive ones aren't from deprived backgrounds either - a lotto them are entitled little sh!ts who have been indulged all of their lives - children of professional parents who just want their child to be "happy" and "express themselves", and blame the teacher for letting them "get bored" (that's what makes them so disruptive: their intelligence and creativity are being stifled).

They complain about any attempt at discipline then go down the teachers' necks when their little snowflake's exam results are appalling.

What's the schools Ofsted rating I wonder? Because all DfE guidance says suspensions should be a last resort so teachers don't really have much choice of what to do with really disruptive pupils.
Teachers can't win, parents don't want to take any responsibility for the misbehaviour of their offspring and the good kids suffer.

Your old school sounds like it would have been hell for the students who actually wanted to learn tbh

Putting a child is isolation is incredibly outdated regardless of what material the walls are made of.

Please suggest some alternatives. Besides, in my experience, 'isolation' just means sitting getting on with school work in a room with a teacher and almost always at least one other student. Frankly I fail to see what's so traumatic about that. It certainly doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent, given the number of kids who are back in there again and again. No doubt you'll think that begs the question 'Well why use it as a sanction then?'. I ask again: please suggest alternatives.

Why not lay the blame where it should go? With the parents

Things are a bit different with DC attending nursery from a young age now, but mainly for the first 4/5 years of a DC life most interaction is with their parents, they're are the ones that set the standards of their DC behaviour.

You reap what you sow.

Who knows, it might even help the parents to actually do some parenting, too, if they were made to take responsibility for the behaviour of their own child.

Children are at school to learn, so why on earth should the benefit to the majority be trumped by the behaviour of a few? School isn't a place of social containment for children who refuse to behave or just prefer acting stupidly/saying daft things. Nobody has yet come up with a viable reason why those who wish to learn should be prevented from doing so. And saying "but nobody's saying that" whilst criticizing every method used to deal with disruptive kids is just being disingenuous. Teachers are not - repeat not - social workers. And if things continue to go on and behaviour remains unchecked, I hope parents are prepared for the inevitable outcome when there are very few (if any) qualified teachers in post. That day may not be too far off.

School punishments have never been as soft as they are now. This wouldn’t even have made a thread 15 years ago.

NaughtPoppy

There is virtually no correlation between the children who are placed in isolation and ‘humiliated’ and the children who are absent from school.

On one hand, humiliation and isolation are totally appropriate and normal in schools.
On the other hand, why is there a crisis in children’s mental health and school attendance?

Often the badly behaved kids are also the kids from difficult backgrounds (of course not always) so perhaps the school were doing something for some of their pupil premium kids who also just happen to be some of the bad behaviour kids. They can't be written off and punished all the time. Who knows what the point of the trip was - it could have been for some of the pastoral team to connect with some of the kids who needed it.

If they don’t want to be humiliated they could always behave. Or is that such an old fashioned concept?

I think the difficulty lies in balancing the resources which are necessary for the school to function.

Disruptive children, whose behaviour require a disproportionate amount of adult attention do not enable a teacher to interact with a group of children, all of whom have their own needs.

The school still obviously has a duty of care towards these children, but possibly does not have a member of staff who can be with them at all times.
The transparent glass room is one solution, along with many others, none of which adequate because they still are without adult staff to supervise these children. The other options may have been to keep them in class, or move to a different class, but the disruption continues.

The question is this. Should an extra member of staff become available, where would they be of more use?
Making the room non transparent and therefore removing the humiliation aspect, and putting a member of staff there is now a possibility. But would schools choose this or would they prefer for that extra member of staff to be used in a different way, more support in the classroom, for instance?

I was about to ask, OP, whether your feelings about the glass room were coloured by your impression of the school being overly strict in general. Lots of posters talk about the problems caused by parents not supporting punishments imposed by the school: I wouldn’t support a punishment imposed for a haircut either. Equally posters talk about teachers getting on with teaching rather than wasting time dealing with unruly kids - lots of teachers are wasting time dealing with tiny inconsequential uniform infractions too, but I don’t see any complaints about that. A punishment that might seem reasonable in a reasonable school might come across as more objectionable in a school that was draconian in general.

I tend to agree with posters who have said that for the sort of child who would find the glass box humiliating, a simple telling-off would be enough of a punishment for them so it feels unnecessary - and for the sort of child who
won’t find it humiliating, it won’t act as any kind of deterrent anyway. But when we talk about whether isolation “works” for disruptive kids - if it doesn’t reform them completely or even deter them from doing it again, it does at least have the effect of benefiting the rest of the class, if only temporarily.

I can’t get past the school that enables theft by taking kids’ jackets off them and hanging them on a fence to be stolen though…

OP, honestly, you have suggested alternatives to the "glass box" (in school exclusion) but then pointed out (correctly) that they don't always work. I can't get worked up about children being excluded in a place where they will be seen by others.

It sounds as though you are generally very dissatisfied with this school and maybe that's flavouring your attitude towards this particular form of consequence. (I'd love to know if the school has actually spelt out that this is specifically meant to be a shaming tactic, rather than a safeguarding/supervision tool.)

Is there any chance of moving your kids to a different school?

What is your alternative?
If you have 2 or 3 students who are constantly disruptive or even aggressive to others how would you deal with them?

Why should the 27 others be denied an education?
It is especially hard for those who need more help or are in lower sets as they needs to concentrate so much more over the distribution.

Why should they be made to feel anxious or frightened in school?

Why should they have to put up with constant noise or foul language ?

Why should they have constant changes of seating plans to try and space out the disruptive pupils?

Why should they have to sit beside the disruptive kid who pokes them, makes comments, scribbles on their work,makes threats?

Why should they have to miss cooking, experiments, practical lessons because the 3 or even 1 makes it unsafe to do so?

Why should they go home and have to catch up on their own because Jayden or Mia had an off day?
Not all able to catch up at home due to lack of Internet, space or family circumstances.

@MrsSunshine2b how would you sort it out and make school a place of learning?
How would you reduce disruption and aggressive behaviour?
How would you let the 27 thrive?
How would you help the 3 without disadvantaging the others?

I’m not entirely sure. It wasn’t something the school explained or advertised to the pupils. I found out about it after they’d gone. I suspect the thought process was that badly behaved kids are often from troubled homes and this act of kindness might be a way to get them on your side?? That’s just my guess but it obviously didn’t change anything. This was early 00s so not sure if the school still does it.

My 1st thought was about safeguarding for child and staff. Constantly under observation keeps both of them safer from many types of potential abuse.

ballybean

Do you mean ‘aren’t worthy of suspension?’

I wasn’t there and neither were you. Obviously giggling at an innuendo isn’t worthy of suspension but as I said it’s more likely that a groups of kids repeatedly asked the teacher about her sexual preferences while the rest cheered and shouted.

There do seem to be a few schools with OTT punishments for minor infractions but in the majority you are fighting for kids to get suspended for verbal abuse, throwing things at students and staff and racism/sexual harassment.

This. Why not lay the blame where it should go? With the parents. Scapegoats aren’t accepted in any other discussion, only teachers/schools when discussing badly behaved kids.

They do, their ‘badly behaved child’ doesn’t come close to ours.

There are plenty of 1st world countries that can control/remove disruptive children without using humiliation which is proven not to work. I guess the UK really is sick of experts though

They probably have higher standards of patenting though