To think this is outdated and needs to be removed?

it is ineffective as a method of addressing anything other than the very immediate issue.

You may be right - I wouldn't care.

If I was like a previous poster, and had a child who was being so brutally bullied that they considered suicide, I'd not give a damn if it had to be done on a daily basis as long as it worked and my child was safe.

That is (I hope) an unusual and rare situation - but similarly, if it allowed other children to enjoy their lessons, and teachers to tech without interruption, then do it.

We are too soft on "minor" transgressions - that's how one day they become major ones.

As am I, criminals are getting younger and unfortunately while 9 times out of 10 they'll be someone bleating about why it's not their fault they did what they did things will never change.

As said by a previous poster this behaviour was incredibly rare in past years, I wholly believe that the softly softly approach that's overtaken the 'nip it in the bud' stance has contributed to it.

Slightly tangential but my brain has gone there so I’m going to say it.
That tory donor that made those Diane Abbot comments is based in our nearest big city, my husband also works in tech and has had colleagues / employees who has worked for his company (which make system one used in GP practices). APPARENTLY the culture is weird - they have to write apology emails to the whole office if they make a mistake and if they’re late they have to announce why to the office. Obviously there’s a ridiculously fast staff turnover and very high wages to keep any staff at all. But I was reminded of these schools with the punitive rules, obsessing over minor things - hair and skirt length etc - our kids can’t just chose to leave and move onto the next thing even if they’re treated in a way that’s demeaning or humiliating.
I’m with OP - it’s like a protracted being sent to the headmasters office.

I defer to your greater experience on this @Rockhopper81 . What's your answer? My apologies if you have already given it above.

Me too, I’m profoundly grateful that my DC are home educated and don’t have to set foot inside these places for SO many reasons.

There are moments now that I am profoundly grateful not to have a school age child.

Not for the pupils who will be in isolation week in-week out - it does absolutely naff all to shame them (at least on any level that will show), because they would rather be thought of as dangerous and tough, than in any way emotionally affected by humiliation.

"They don't work! Well they work for the borderline pests,, but definitely not for the complete pains who endure anything rather than behave. Putting them in a glass box where people can see what they do could be a cost effective way of managing these bullies"

Sending them to an isolation room/box/cubicle doesn't work for 'the complete pains who endure anything rather than behave' either - you said it yourself, they'll endure anything. They will never show any vulnerability, however they feel, because it's safer for them not to.** There are complex issues at play with most of these children.

I think we need to separate the issue of bullying and isolation too - bullying needs tackling with a robust process to keep the victims safe, and to hold the bullies accountable whilst looking to remove the bullying behaviour. These isolation spaces will do nothing to change the behaviour of bullies, because their behaviour isn't linked to whether they're liked/not liked/humiliated etc. It generally comes from a sense of power, when they have absolutely none in their life; that's not an excuse - I was bullied myself, it's unacceptable and can be incredibly dangerous - but the issues need tackling at a deeper level than sending them to isolation for a lesson/day/week whatever. The victim needs to be kept safe, and the bully needs intervention to either tackle the underlying issues, or potentially specialist provision if necessary (of which there is a crisis level shortage, which brings me back to the education system being a shit-show on the large scale).

Sadly @cottoncandy260 , there probably isn't enough money in the pot to do anything useful. Because the remediation needs to take those problem kids back to infancy to solve it. There are no resources to mitigate the effects of bad or indulgent parenting and absent fathers.

you all sounds like fun folk

Shame works as a sanction. It's powerful, and humiliating. And I suspect it's as/more effective than social media to regulate bad behaviour. To avoid this punishment, all you need to do is........behave. Stepping out of line loses its appeal.

How on earth is this the same? If the whole school worked in glass boxes it would be fine. But it’s just singling out 3 children in the whole school based on their misbehaviour.

As others have said countless times: if everyone in your office worked in normal rooms but there were just 3 glass rooms and you were put in one to work for the day because you were a bit short with your line manager - then THAT would be a similar parallel to draw.

They don't work! Well they work for the borderline pests,, but definitely not for the complete pains who endure anything rather than behave. Putting them in a glass box where people can see what they do could be a cost effective way of managing these bullies.

Surely this 'glass box' is just an isolation room, but with windows so they don't need to waste staff time on supervision.

They're sent there when they're pissing about in class and wrecking everyone else's opportunity to learn.

Yes, I know we should be digging into the reasons for the misbehaviour, and I'm sure that'll be happening too. But when your lesson is being destroyed, and the other pupils are suffering, sometimes you really do just need to get them out.

My first impression was shock, but then on reflection it’s no different to modern offices? Where there might be floor to ceiling windows/glass doors. It’s not the weirdest thing

No, they really don’t learn. They will be the same ones in there week in week
out.

The reason they don’t learn? Because the majority of kids with big behaviour
problems have trauma and attachment issues. I work with kids who have drug addict parents, who have witnessed domestic violence, who haven’t seen their mum in 5 years. They are the ones who will be constantly in isolation booths and exclusion rooms.

I love how so many are saying ‘well if they behave, they wouldn’t have to be there’. Like it’s that simple. These kids have years of learned behaviour. Negative learned behaviour. It gets them noticed.

No, they don’t seem to have any shame as they’ve learned to hide down deep any hint of vulnerability. They will laugh in your face and continue to misbehave as it’s the only way they know.

Continuing with these sort of punishment booths really really doesn’t help. The children just return to class more resentful, less fearful and with nothing to lose. You are teaching them nothing. I’m actually very surprised at how many on MN are so unaware of effective behavioural approaches.

Is this thread full of Tory MPs? Teach them a lesson! They’ll choose to behave! What an over-simplification of such a myriad of issues that are rife in school and society. If a child is sent to an isolation room, glass or otherwise, it is ineffective as a method of addressing anything other than the very immediate issue. Nowhere in the criminal justice system is there a theory or type of sentence with the aim of humiliation. I’m not sure why we would take that approach with children.

I've asked this a few times on this thread, and I don't think I've had an answer yet: What are your suggested alternatives to detention and exclusion from lessons?

The aim of detention and exclusion is NOT humiliation. It is supposed to be a deterrent to discourage bad behaviour, and sometimes a method of removing a volatile student from a classroom situation, and partly a way of allowing lessons to take place with less disruption (albeit temporarily). It's not a very effective deterrent, which pretty much shows that it's not particularly harsh. I think that in the average state school, all but the very, very compliant kids would actually laugh at the idea that it's humiliating.

I think OP said the room was for stuff like talking in class though. I was a right goody two shoes at school and even I got told off for talking in class sometimes.

Yeah that's what the OP said... Anyway, there's talking in class and there's talking in class. Nobody's going to be excluded from class for being a little bit chatty occasionally. The kind of talking in class that might get you excluded is constantly having loud conversations across the classroom, possibly including swearing, and completely blanking the teacher when they ask you to stop. And doing that lesson after lesson while not bothering to listen or do any work. A kid who gets excluded for that will almost certainly say 'All I was doing was talking!'.

Is this thread full of Tory MPs? Teach them a lesson! They’ll choose to behave! What an over-simplification of such a myriad of issues that are rife in school and society. If a child is sent to an isolation room, glass or otherwise, it is ineffective as a method of addressing anything other than the very immediate issue. Nowhere in the criminal justice system is there a theory or type of sentence with the aim of humiliation. I’m not sure why we would take that approach with children.

I don't think it's degrading and humiliating. I think it sounds like a good idea.

My son was severely and chronically bullied.
He threatened to take his own life.
He is 11 years old.
The bullies were put in said isolation several times, and it's worked.
Hence I fully agree to keeping this as a punishment.
We're becoming a nanny nation, it is ridiculous. Punishment for severe bullying is needed.
Letters were also sent home, these vile kids were sent to the head, and in to isolation.
If this had not worked, they were looking at full expulsion.
And I don't care how humiliating it may be - Every action has a reaction and the sooner bullies realise this, the better.

This.