Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this is outdated and needs to be removed?

565 replies

ballybean · 14/03/2024 23:49

My son's school has an all glass isolation room in the hall with three desks, children are put there as punishment? Teachers and students walking passed

OP posts:
user1477391263 · 17/03/2024 00:51

Christ, there are some complete and utter wet wipes on this thread.

If they want to have this in my kid’s school, it’s fine with me. I remember being at school and having lesson after lesson ruined by the same 5 shitty boys.

nostaples · 17/03/2024 00:38

Another example of the barbaric glass box. In the last school I worked in it was only SLT who worked in such monstrously cruel environments. I’ve worked in them myself. If you actually call the glass box a windowed office, which is what it is, perhaps it would be less provocative.

To think this is outdated and needs to be removed?
Cyb3rg4l · 17/03/2024 00:02

Gymrabbit · 15/03/2024 00:15

smooththecat

I have googled and it’s become abundantly clear you have no idea what you are talking about.
the device you refer to was for constant surveillance nothing to do with humiliation at all.

The panopticon effect is about the effect of the internalised gaze on regulating behaviour - if someone feels they are being constantly watched they behave better and follow the rules, even when they are not actually being watched. It is one of the many reasons the police use cctv in city centres not just to catch people who behave badly but also as a deterrent.

Sparsely · 16/03/2024 23:37

warmheartcoldfeet · 16/03/2024 22:10

I think the best teachers who students behave better for are the ones that respect the kids and are not just throwing out punishments left right and centre.

As a serial classroom disrupter, answerer back'er I have to agree with this. The three or four teachers that actually gave me the time of day instead of being judgemental about my character got the very best out of me. They took (a very small amount, it doesn't take much) time to make a connection with me on a level and didn't act all holier than thou and righteous. I felt respected, so I respected them back.
The sneery, trying to make you look stupid, teachers got the worst wrath. They never heard the end of it from me once I'd got started.
The glass room would have done nothing for me.

Looking back can you not see you were looking for special treatment? That it's not practicable for a teacher to make a personal connection with each of 300 or so pupils they see in the course of a week and still teach the volume of content that they are required to teach. I know some teachers do, but that's an exceptional level of interpersonal skill that you couldn't realistically expect from everyone.

wasieverreallyhere · 16/03/2024 23:34

Just a thought why don't we find out why pupils misbehave not all are sen and adhd not that you would think that on here, but what is happening at home

OhMygraydays · 16/03/2024 23:30

Never heard of anything like this before. An updated version of the stocks, without the missiles. Finding out the causes of disruption in children is much more productive than putting them in a glass box. In this modern age there are I would think much better ways of dealing with these issues.

OhMygraydays · 16/03/2024 23:18

Never heard of this example before. Modern version of the stocks eh! Without the physical misiles.

Wanttobenameless · 16/03/2024 22:16

beautifuldaytosavelives · 16/03/2024 20:01

Is this thread full of Tory MPs? Teach them a lesson! They’ll choose to behave! What an over-simplification of such a myriad of issues that are rife in school and society. If a child is sent to an isolation room, glass or otherwise, it is ineffective as a method of addressing anything other than the very immediate issue. Nowhere in the criminal justice system is there a theory or type of sentence with the aim of humiliation. I’m not sure why we would take that approach with children.

It worked for the evil kids who made my child suicidal.

Tereseta · 16/03/2024 22:15

ballybean · 15/03/2024 00:05

I find it so funny how I mentioned this to my group of friends and they were all shocked. I mention it here and of course it's totally acceptable!

We can just starting hitting kids again then, if they don't want to get a smack, they just have to behave!

Is there a possibility that your friends may just reflect off your reaction to it, agree as it is a non issue to them to not rock the boat? You will always get frank views when they are anonymous.

warmheartcoldfeet · 16/03/2024 22:10

I think the best teachers who students behave better for are the ones that respect the kids and are not just throwing out punishments left right and centre.

As a serial classroom disrupter, answerer back'er I have to agree with this. The three or four teachers that actually gave me the time of day instead of being judgemental about my character got the very best out of me. They took (a very small amount, it doesn't take much) time to make a connection with me on a level and didn't act all holier than thou and righteous. I felt respected, so I respected them back.
The sneery, trying to make you look stupid, teachers got the worst wrath. They never heard the end of it from me once I'd got started.
The glass room would have done nothing for me.

CMZ2018 · 16/03/2024 21:53

Behave themselves and they won’t have to go in it then

ballybean · 16/03/2024 21:50

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 16/03/2024 21:44

I think the best teachers who students behave better for are the ones that respect the kids and are not just throwing out punishments left right and centre.

A teacher can have respect for the kids and still hand put a lot of sanctions if that is what is necessary. I've taught in schools where I've handed out lots of sanctions and schools where I've handed out virtually none. It wasn't me that was different. I didn't become more respectful or less respectful of kids. It was the amount of poor behaviour that caused the difference in the number of sanctions.

I haven't said my kids shouldn't be sanctioned. You sound like a great teacher who doesn't write them all off as little shits if they mess up

OP posts:
ballybean · 16/03/2024 21:47

Aren't juvinile offenders

OP posts:
ballybean · 16/03/2024 21:47

There's no need to be bitchy at me. I'm just another parent trying to navigate the teens years. My children are juvinile offenders. They are reasonably good kids. They don't drink, they come home on time, they are respectful at home, obviously not all the time. They fuck up just like adults do

OP posts:
AllProperTeaIsTheft · 16/03/2024 21:44

I think the best teachers who students behave better for are the ones that respect the kids and are not just throwing out punishments left right and centre.

A teacher can have respect for the kids and still hand put a lot of sanctions if that is what is necessary. I've taught in schools where I've handed out lots of sanctions and schools where I've handed out virtually none. It wasn't me that was different. I didn't become more respectful or less respectful of kids. It was the amount of poor behaviour that caused the difference in the number of sanctions.

Trumptonagain · 16/03/2024 21:44

Zonder · 16/03/2024 21:10

Criminals are getting younger? Where did you get that from? There has always been juvenile crime and bad behaviour.

The crimes that Juveniles are committing, in some case are becoming much worse.

Yes, fist fights were a thing, girls having a bit of hair pulling but to take a knife or any weapon to another human being without thought of the consequences is in my mind unthinkable.

DriftingDora · 16/03/2024 21:30

ballybean · 15/03/2024 10:58

It's a big enough school, I'd imagine 600 boys.

No he wasn't embarrassed. He got them for being late. We came up with a plan for him to be more organised in the morning and they stopped.

I wasn't expecting so many replies so still getting through them but have to head out.
I'm not a teacher and understand there's a lot of you on this thread.
But I do work in an area that's under pressure and dealing with public and often have to manage conflict. I think the best teachers who students behave better for are the ones that respect the kids and are not just throwing out punishments left right and centre. I know I'm going to get flamed for that but I really do believe it.

My children aren't snowflakes by any means. I don't mollycoddle them but I don't believe that humiliating them works

The school hasn't got major behavioural problems.

I think the best teachers who students behave better for are the ones that respect the kids and are not just throwing out punishments left right and centre.

Newsflash: respect is a two-way street. Perish the thought that parents should teach their kids to respect teachers, eh?

And the bit about teachers 'throwing out punishments left right and centre' is just laughable - bet I can hazard a guess who told you that. 😆

'My children aren't snowflakes by any means'. Of course not.

Flopsy145 · 16/03/2024 21:21

Punishments need to be punishments, if they don't like being in that room then they should have more respect for their fellow students and teachers and not do anything to end up there

ZebraDanios · 16/03/2024 21:13

@Emotionalsupportviper We are too soft on "minor" transgressions - that's how one day they become major ones.

Out of interest, what’s your idea of a minor transgression?

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 16/03/2024 21:12

it is ineffective as a method of addressing anything other than the very immediate issue

But the immediate issue needs addressing, and often the longer-term cause can't be solved by the school anyway, however hard they try.

Zonder · 16/03/2024 21:10

Trumptonagain · 16/03/2024 20:51

As am I, criminals are getting younger and unfortunately while 9 times out of 10 they'll be someone bleating about why it's not their fault they did what they did things will never change.

As said by a previous poster this behaviour was incredibly rare in past years, I wholly believe that the softly softly approach that's overtaken the 'nip it in the bud' stance has contributed to it.

Criminals are getting younger? Where did you get that from? There has always been juvenile crime and bad behaviour.

Isitautumnyet23 · 16/03/2024 21:03

benefitstaxcredithelp · 16/03/2024 20:44

Me too, I’m profoundly grateful that my DC are home educated and don’t have to set foot inside these places for SO many reasons.

My children adore school, wouldn’t ever want to put a foot wrong as they love learning, love their teachers and love their friends. Schools ARE amazing, but unfortunately we are asking way too much of mainstream schools and teachers (whose main job should be to teach their subject!). They should not be having to do the job of a social worker, which seems to take up so much of their time these days.

Its quite a modern problem as those that repeatedly mucked around in the past would be punished, then expelled and left to fail. Thankfully we don’t just leave kids to fail these days, but I really think mainstream school is the wrong place for children with serious behaviour problems. We need more schools geared up to help children with additional needs. A different kind of school day to the kind my children have (and thrive off!) in mainstream school.

cottoncandy260 · 16/03/2024 20:58

Papyrophile · 16/03/2024 20:38

Sadly @cottoncandy260 , there probably isn't enough money in the pot to do anything useful. Because the remediation needs to take those problem kids back to infancy to solve it. There are no resources to mitigate the effects of bad or indulgent parenting and absent fathers.

Absolutely.

Unfortunately the things that work - 1:1 relationship building, parental therapy, mediation, restorative justice, smaller class sizes, trained and qualified SEN/nurture teachers etc etc - all take time, money and resources. Things that our cash-strapped, staff limited schools simply don’t have.

Isolation booths are a quick, ineffective short term fix that solve nothing.

Cactusdaff · 16/03/2024 20:56

Papyrophile · 16/03/2024 20:45

I defer to your greater experience on this @Rockhopper81 . What's your answer? My apologies if you have already given it above.

Why do you keep asking that? Is it to a-ha! people when they don't come up with a magic answer to an age-old problem as if that makes using humiliation acceptable? Because that's nonsense. Something can still be morally wrong, even without an alternative.

And I'm pretty sure you'd argue against any alternative offered anyway.

Emotionalsupportviper · 16/03/2024 20:56

Rockhopper81 · 16/03/2024 20:41

Not for the pupils who will be in isolation week in-week out - it does absolutely naff all to shame them (at least on any level that will show), because they would rather be thought of as dangerous and tough, than in any way emotionally affected by humiliation.

Keeps the other children safe and allows then to get an education, though.