Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is outdated and needs to be removed?

565 replies

ballybean · 14/03/2024 23:49

My son's school has an all glass isolation room in the hall with three desks, children are put there as punishment? Teachers and students walking passed

OP posts:
Snowpatrolling · 15/03/2024 08:07

Yep we have one in my DD school, she hates going there, she is there quite often, if she behaved she wouldn’t be there! I’ve got no problem with it. 🤷‍♀️

ThisOldThang · 15/03/2024 08:05

At my school I had to suffer constant disruption in class from a group of idiots. I just used to sit there and read the textbooks for 15+ minutes each lesson as they fucked around causing trouble for the teacher.

There's far too much indulgence given to children that ruin things for everybody else.

Stick 'em in the box.

Caerulea · 15/03/2024 08:00

This whole thing of humiliating students, that's suddenly very popular again, blows my mind!

No, it's not ok. It's never ok. It's not ok for parents or family to humiliate their kids as punishment & neither is it for schools.

Why not just put them in stocks in the playground with a ready supply of rotten tomatoes?

BobbyBiscuits · 15/03/2024 07:59

It would feel more claustrophobic and 'isolating' if they were in a stuffy room in a basement or something. I'd rather be in a glass box. I guess I could try and speak to my mates as they walked past. I guess it's meant to 'display' them to others, so it will be known that X kid was in there. I don't know whether that encourages or discourages bad behaviour. It is not meant to be really fun in there as obviously it's a punishment.

BeyondMyWits · 15/03/2024 07:56

When you have no extra staff, timeouts need to be "unmanned" I guess. This seems the same as sitting in the corridor outside the heads office so everyone passing can tut and shake their head. At least they can get on with work if there's a desk.

ZebraDanios · 15/03/2024 07:55

HereBeFuckery · 15/03/2024 05:49

They are humiliated by being seen to have done wrong? That would require children to have a sense of shame. Are you sure this is correct? The children who end up with isolation or suspension at my school have notably low levels of shame.

For example: being confronted with evidence that they have destroyed a toilet bowl (shattered it) and caused sewage to leak out. Reaction: stifled laughter.

For example: having punched a member of staff because they were vaping THC, and when confronted about their choices, including evidence of their physical violence, replying "she has a stupid fucking face, deserved a good slap".

For example: having nearly been expelled (don't get me started on the 'nearly') for arson, when asked about career choices, replied thy would like to be a firefighter and laughing like a hyena.

Yes, these are delicate flowers who have a well developed sense of shame and can have their fragile egos damaged by a room made so glass. You have no clue.

I think OP said the room was for stuff like talking in class though. I was a right goody two shoes at school and even I got told off for talking in class sometimes.

With the sort of behaviour you’re talking about here, I agree a glass room wouldn’t damage them, but surely it wouldn’t do any good either?

ButterflyTable · 15/03/2024 07:52

It’s probably not there to humiliate but for the teachers to be able to observe. However I can see how it is partly humiliating, however fear of that humiliation should make the kids behave!

Zyq · 15/03/2024 07:47

caringcarer · 15/03/2024 07:44

I'm sure the punishment for speeding is having to go on a speed awareness course in their own time with other speeders. The first thing they make you do on the course is to state your name and why you were speeding. The humiliation of having to register as a speeder. All miscreants lumped together or to avoid that pay the fine and get points on their licence.

Show quote history

It isn't humiliating. You're sitting in the comfort of your own house in front of a camera, the other people involved are people who have sped who are hardly going to heap shame on you, plus the instructor who doesn't honestly care and is probably grateful that you are keeping him/her in a job.

Zyq · 15/03/2024 07:45

SalviaDivinorum · 15/03/2024 00:02

So what sanctions would you suggest for misbehaviour?

The sanctions every other school uses?

CinnamonJellyBeans · 15/03/2024 07:45

...also means that a teacher can be 1:1 if there's only one kid in there and makes false accusations less likely

caringcarer · 15/03/2024 07:44

KillerTomato7 · 15/03/2024 03:20

I have an idea, everyone. The next time this incredibly caring carer is caught speeding in his car, he should have to stand outside for a period of no less than 6 hours, wearing a dunce cap and signboard detailing his offense.

I can't see why they'd mind, since they have nothing to worry about if they just drive at the correct speed.

Show quote history

I'm sure the punishment for speeding is having to go on a speed awareness course in their own time with other speeders. The first thing they make you do on the course is to state your name and why you were speeding. The humiliation of having to register as a speeder. All miscreants lumped together or to avoid that pay the fine and get points on their licence.

rainydays03 · 15/03/2024 07:41

ballybean · 15/03/2024 00:02

I find it degrading and humiliating. My son hasn't been in it. I thought he was joking when he told me.

Show quote history

As someone who worked in a secondary school for years - The children put in there won’t find it degrading and humiliating I can bet you any money on that - they will see it as a badge of honour and a complete laugh.

CinnamonJellyBeans · 15/03/2024 07:40

ballybean · 15/03/2024 00:25

@Gymrabbit I've mentioned multiple times this is for common class misbehaviour, messing, chatting in class. Of course for violence too. I understand children in rage need to be taken somewhere safe but this isn't what it's about. The kids are left in the box with no supervision and then the students and teachers pass by looking at them

If it's for "common class behaviour", why are there only three desks.

I'm not keen on it, as humiliation and subsequent can exacerbate the antisocial behaviour, so it's not a solution in the long term.

However, if you're the parent of a well behaved kid, who has this type of behaviour inflicted upon them in every lesson due to our UK inclusionary education policy, you'll probably be happy to see this behaviour held up to account publicly.

midgetastic · 15/03/2024 07:39

It's called punishment

It needs to be not nice - if it's felt to be humiliating that's kind of the point

You can't punish someone without them having sone kind of suffering - mental , physical or emotional

The idea that you can somehow correct anyone without upsetting them is a little odd - but also I think behind a lot of antisocial behaviour/ discipline problems

MintyCedric · 15/03/2024 07:36

ballybean · 14/03/2024 23:59

I think it's humiliating for them. They aren't put there because they are a danger. They are put there if messing in class, distracting others etc

So the kids will know they’re in there and why, and staff will know as these things are communicated from a safeguarding pov (so we can’t make sure they have registered/not bunked off)…

A glass iso room will make no difference whatsoever to who knows.

sashh · 15/03/2024 07:32

Lots of schools have these 'glass rooms' some are used as offices.

The reason for building them is to stop accusations from students about teachers and to safeguard children.

If you go into a modern school you will find more and more glass.

I think it is a good solution, you do not need a teacher to supervise, teachers walking past will know why someone is not in class and can drop off work.

PrincessTeaSet · 15/03/2024 07:24

Sugargliderwombat · 15/03/2024 06:30

I agree with you OP. These schools are raising people who will be young adults in a couple of years. Are we put in a box of shame at work when we make mistakes? No.

Mistakes such as disrupting the whole office so that no one can work, verbally abusing your boss? You'd get sacked. That is also quite humiliating! Teenagers are quite old enough to understand that.

Making a mistake in a pupils school work should not get them sent to isolation but I don't think anyone said it did

PrincessTeaSet · 15/03/2024 07:18

againstthestorm · 15/03/2024 06:44

I don’t know what the solution is in schools. It’s part of a wider social problem, isn’t it? Children and young people’s ill mental health has been increasing for a long time now, particularly over the last 15 years. Kids with poor mental / emotional health are quite likely to act out and be difficult to teach. Teenagers are the most sleep deprived group in our society, due to teenage sleep needs ( it’s a biological thing that they have different sleep patterns to us and are programmed to sleep late) yet we won’t change the start of the school day to accommodate this. Sleep deprivation reduces empathy which will also lead to poor behaviour. And schools have a narrow academic focus which does not suit many kids yet they are all forced through it. No wonder disengaged kids act out. Then there’s all the pressure of social media/ online bullying. Not to mention watching violent online porn in their downtime. watching violence and degradation is hardly going to improve behaviour, is it? Then there’s the pressure on parents, with two parents working full time as life is so expensive, there’s not a lot of time leftover for the kids. I could go on.

We as adults have created this maelstrom for teenagers and then we think they are just wee shites if they are not thriving or behaving in it.

We need a whole scale systems rethink of the society we have created.

Whatever the ills of society, free education is a huge privilege. Acting as though children have no choice but to behave badly is part of the problem. Poor mental health does not excuse bad behaviour. Nor does being bored. Most of these kids don't make the effort to engage with their school work so would never get chance to find out if it was interesting or not!

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 15/03/2024 07:14

Hmmm. What is the actual intent behind it? How is this communicated? Is it about having a safe and calm room that’s easily supervised?

or is it „go to your box of shame where everyone will gawk at you“?

The former would be great for separate exams, group projects or pupils that need a time-out due to overstimulation etc. (As pp just said)

as for using this as a punishment: yet again, what’s the actual intent? What’s the effect this has on the students?

And is it truly worse than sending a pupil to the library, lunch room or the headteacher’s office?

the culture around this - on the side of teachers and students - is crucial imo.

PrincessTeaSet · 15/03/2024 07:12

ballybean · 15/03/2024 00:03

Detention, suspension, extra homework, report card, withheld from activities??

Show quote history

None of those remove the disruptive child from the lesson though. Except suspension which is a bit extreme. These kids won't bother with extra homework so lol at that one.

These kids are perfectly able to choose to behave if they want to. There does need to be a way of maintaining order in the classroom. What's better - one child feels humiliated due to their bad behaviour, or 29 children can't learn anything?

clpsmum · 15/03/2024 07:07

ballybean · 14/03/2024 23:59

I think it's humiliating for them. They aren't put there because they are a danger. They are put there if messing in class, distracting others etc

Maybe they should behave then and they wouldn't get sent there

Overtheatlantic · 15/03/2024 07:06

Just a sin bin for teenagers.

DeeleyBen · 15/03/2024 07:04

Somehowgirl · 15/03/2024 06:57

I don't see how it's humiliating to be put into another room if you're disrupting an entire class. The reason it's glass is so that staff can keep an eye on them and make sure they are working and not simply causing more trouble in another room.

If we're going to have a little cry about their mental health, let's spare a moment for the mental health or the children who are quietly trying to get on with their work but are having their education rudely disrupted by troublemakers. I remember the stress of trying to learn with other children mucking about and behaving appallingly as a shy, quiet teenager.

Show quote history

Me too, was very tiresome and boring being in certain lessons where classmates one mission was to disrupt that class

Justwanttocomment · 15/03/2024 07:02

When it’s a room that the rest of the kids can’t see the kids that have been isolated come back and tell the rest of the kids that they just messed around all day. It then becomes a bit of a cool thing to be in isolation. When it’s a visible room borderline naughty kids look at it and think they’d rather not be in there so are more likely to behave.

NamelessNancy · 15/03/2024 07:02

Of course it's humiliating, and many on this thread seem to think that's a great thing This ignores the fact that for some kids it will have the opposite effect and be a badge of honour too.

Nobody has said there shouldn't be consequences for poor behaviour and of course other kids' education shouldn't be disrupted but making a public spectacle of punishment seems unlikely to be the answer imo.