To think this is outdated and needs to be removed?

Perhaps if the students weren't disrespectful in the first place the whole issue would be resolved.
Parents need to start working with schools rather than screening their everything is unfair. Kids know they can behave like brats and their parents will still say oh no you shouldn't be put in a classroom where (shock, horror) teachers and pupils can see you.
Children know the rules. So they choose to end up in that classroom or not.
If they can't deal with that then good luck dealing with the real world where there are consequences if you don't behave.

I think though it removes the child from the classroom for a period so other kids can be taught and the class managed. Reality is if you are a child who keeps getting internal exclusions it may be that teachers aren’t best positioned to help you. What they can do is minimise the negative impact on other kids.

If a child is being disruptive they need to be removed from the class for the benefit of the education of the greater number.

I don't really know what the answer is. Would be irresponsible to send them home without an adult to collect them.

It does seem from some of the teachers in schools that behaviour is downright appalling and dangerous in schools these days. Frankly if parents can’t be arsed the school have to do the best they can to manage behaviour whilst the kids are in school.

So yeah if your kid is in the hannibal box it’s on you as a parent to fix their behaviour. We have to really start expecting more from parents, schools are there to teach kids not raise them. It must be extraordinary difficult managing the level of shite behaviour in british schools these days. I’m not sure exactly what parents expect them to do as an alternative.

I have mixed feelings about these forms of punishment - I can see both sides of the argument.

But I’m curious - those who think it is completely wrong - what would you suggest instead?

From what my kids tell me, the disruptive kids are quite variable. Some come from totally chaotic backgrounds with shocking home lives. Some have much more stable backgrounds. But the thing they all have in common is some sort of problem at home, ranging from violence/drugs to slightly detached parents.

In an ideal worked the school would be full of counsellors and support workers, helping to undo some of the damage done to these kids at home, and getting them to reach a state of mind in which they can be effectively taught. But in reality the resources just aren’t there, and realistically they never will be.

So how can classrooms be made productive learning environments for all the kids, when some of them are determined to be disruptive for whatever reason?

No, it's not ok. It's never ok. It's not ok for parents or family to humiliate their kids as punishment & neither is it for schools.

Why not just put them in stocks in the playground with a ready supply of rotten tomatoes?

From what my kids tell me, the disruptive kids are quite variable. Some come from totally chaotic backgrounds with shocking home lives. Some have much more stable backgrounds. But the thing they all have in common is some sort of problem at home, ranging from violence/drugs to slightly detached parents.

ln an ideal worked the school would be full of counsellors and support workers, helping to undo some of the damage done to these kids at home, and getting them to reach a state of mind in which they can be effectively taught. But in reality the resources just aren’t there, and realistically they never will be

And there it is.

Hopefully is the only thing on the list you did @Rosscameasdoody! ....🫣

I would argue that students don’t necessarily need to respect authorities figures, but rather be respectful of them. Slight nuance I know, but definitely different.

This made me choke on my hot chocolate !! 🤣🤣🤣

I suspect It's more about safety but agree humiliation should not feature in discipline.

You could email the head?

What's wrong with punishing children who don't behave and who distract and disrupt? They're hardly being flogged FFS.

What do you propose as an alternative OP? Cuddles and sweets for the kids who make their teachers' and fellow pupils' lives a misery?

If they don’t want to be in that room they don’t misbehave - it’s really simple

Schools need to find punishments that work - obviously corporal punishment is wrong but detentions don't work, extra homework? Will the parents enforce it? Every day people are posting on Mumsnet trying to undermine these measures eg my child can't stay after school, my child can't possibly do homework due to x or y, it's not fair they have been excluded from a trip ...

Basically the school has so few options and if segregated learning works and the child learns from it then no complaints from me (using it more than occasionally for the same child means it doesn't work for them).

Here in my town with parents permission the secondary school has a weekend detention once a month where they clean up the beach and other open areas, we all know they are the naughty ones, so there's a bit of name and shame, but also doing good for society, the kids don't seem to begrudge the punishment exactly but it's a deterrent and few have to do it again. Not sure it would work in bigger places though. Police are using the same tactic for anti social behaviour too, again parents support them, so it works

Adult ?
The sack?
Criminal conviction?
Jail?

This. What would your boss do if you threw a chair at them, called them a fucking cunt then kicked the door off the hinges? Placating and hot chocolate?

I’m not sure there is much time for reflection or knuckling down to work with people walking past all the time, mates possibly knocking on the glass and making a joke out of things. Seems counterproductive to me.

As an ex-headteacher myself I am nt in favour of this type of intervention at all. It massively discriminates against children with SEND and is not effective. We wouldn't do this to adults, so why would we do it to children?

@HereBeFuckery

What kinds of consequences did seriously disruptive pupils in your post recieve then?
are they send speacial needs pupils then?

Is there 🤔 support for teachers dealing with disruptive pupils that is as bad as that sounds like their behaviours is out of control?

I hope this kind of disruptive behaviours doesn't get swept away under the carpet or dismissed by their parents in anyway?

I really think these disruptive kinds of pupils should be reported to the local social services and even reported to the police

The parents should have to actively get involved with the school to change their behaviours too...

They have them in police stations for vulnerable/teenage offenders, it's a observation tool when staffing can't be what it needs to be.
There's not a lot of answers for some young people. Removing from activities is as bad for MH/isolating, detentions can't be given in some cases.

"If we are seeking to form empathetic and resilient citizens this does not seem the way to go...."

Unfortunately that ship has sailed by this age and they aren't in school enough for a high school to turn things around. We need better intervention at primary level.

Kids who are a pain in the arse do need to be removed from the classroom. I have one who isn’t at all naughty in the sense he’s not rude or violent and he gets outstanding grades but he’s a royal pain in the backside and whatever the teachers say he won’t stop chatting and being silly. To be honest I would be delighted for him to be put in a box if it meant he stopped the constant chat. If he can’t show respect to the teacher trying to teach the class why should they respect him.

Don’t be so silly. Actions don’t have consequences these days. There’s always something or someone else to blame for abdicating personal responsibility for anything, and always a professional on hand to validate that blame.

If we are seeking to form empathetic and resilient citizens this does not seem the way to go....

Then I suggest if they don’t like it they behave and they won’t have to go in there.

I can tell you, from experience, it absolutely breaks these boys. To the point of being hospitalised - twice.

Why should teachers and well behaved kids who want to learn have these spoiled arseholes in their classrooms though? Presumably they all have ADHD or some other similar 'mental health issue' which makes them behave poorly when in reality they're just entitled little shits who think the world owes them a living. Stick them in isolation.