To think this is outdated and needs to be removed?

@Cactusdaff you're right. I am interested to know your solution for the disruptive kids who are kicking off in every lesson and ruining other kids education.
I do not think using shame is right, but I do think it's right to remove kids who are abusive, violent, disruptive. And once removed, I'm not sure where else they go?

Yes, my point was I don't think most would find it humiliating. Many students who repeatedly misbehave are very happy to be thought of and shown to be rule breakers. So, even if the intent was to humiliate, then i doubt it would succeed. What consequences would you suggest for students who do not see good behaviour as something to aspire to, have so little regard for the opinions of those in authority that they don't even want their approval, and have their self esteem rooted in the admiration of their peers for their rebellion?

if they don’t like the thought of being humiliated they could behave.

Says it all really.

Using shame and humiliation to control behaviour is absolutely outdated and not effective.

Unfortunately, people don't want to hear that because instilling fear in someone else often does get the behaviour you demand in the short term. It allows them to bask in their arrogance that they've 'solved the problem' and is a quick way to assert their power over someone and feel good about themselves.

Of course there needs to be consequences for poor, rude or harmful behaviour but this is not the way. When people are frightened, shamed or angry there isn't usually much room for self-reflection. That's true for adults so why anyone thinks children will be masters of it and 'learn their lesson' is beyond me.

@ballybean you say detention does nothing, however, your son had two. Which apparently he liked as he got to stay indoors. So by your reasoning, he would carry on being late to continue to get detentions. However, you worked together so he is now not late. So, detentions did work. I suspect he actually missed hanging out with his mates/the free time that he lost whilst doing detention.
I'm unsure why litter picking outside of school is any less humiliating than being in a box ar school. More people see you picking litter, it's shame from a wider society. For me, whilst the litter picking idea maybe teaches the kids they are part of this society and their actions have consequences, I'm not really sure it's less humiliating, or more helpful in actual lesson time, than time out in the box of shame.

But I think isolating them doesn't work and it's humiliating. Humiliation does not bring good behaviour (in most cases).

I also don't think detention etc works.

If the action allows the majority of the pupils to work without the constant distraction of idiots and allows the teachers to teach without having to deal with disruptions then the action is justified, if they feel 'humiliated' then the solution is in their hands.

When I was at primary in the 1980s, children who were made to miss their play had to sit outside the staff room, where they would be seen by teachers going in and out, and also by all the other children going out to play, as that's where the entrance to the playground was. I was so obedient that this almost never happened to be, but near the end of my time there, I once deliberately did something that would earn me a "missed play", so that I could experience sitting there. 😀Teachers noted that I seemed a little too happy to be there. Perhaps the "badge of honour" thing is true.

(Other things that happened to naughty children were: boys who laughed when told off were made to laugh in a mirror, others who messed about in assembly were asked if they would like to sit in a pushchair, as they were behaving like babies. Those who did not follow a teacher's instructions correctly during a lesson were made to stand at the front and hold their books up.)

I presume this detention area is used for repeated and ongoing misbehaviour that has been sanctioned previously in other ways and this is the next step in the ladder of sanctions, before the suspension step.

Weekend detentions are a great idea. Do teachers get paid overtime for coming in on a Saturday to supervise it or how does it work in practice?

No. Because even in schools with small, well behaved classes they’re still forced to conform and learn by rote most of the time. That’s not how innovation works. That’s not how humans work. Teachers (not all) still use humiliation to achieve their means. Teachers still force KIDS to sit cross legged with their mouths shut. It goes against nature. It goes against who kids ARE. It’s ill thought out and hasn’t moved far on from its origins when kids were expected to put up, shut up and work in filthy conditions.

your argument would work if it weren’t for all the classes where this isn’t the behaviour and the kids still aren’t coming out world-changing standards

And the school would have whinging parents complaining that these are 'degrading' and'/or 'humiliating', tick which box matches your agenda. For a type of parent whatever a school does is wrong, it's never, ever the poor, misunderstood pupil's fault.

Why is the West Side Story song Dear Sgt Krupke now fixed in my head???

I think your concerns are based in a misconception that the students in there will actually feel humiliated. You're projecting on to them how you would feel. In reality, for many being visibly 'incarcerated' will actually be a badge of honour. There may be some students who value being thought of as well behaved by their peers, but they're probably unlikely to be the ones ending up in there.
Personally I think its a bad idea, because there's enough controversy to enable students with parents who hold your views to use the schools 'humiliation' of them as a smokescreen for their behaviour. And before you know it, it stops being about how Johnny verbally abused his teacher, and starts being about Johnny as 'victim'. Though tbf, I'm not sure there's any sanction where that's not a risk.

Here in my town with parents permission the secondary school has a weekend detention once a month where they clean up the beach and other open areas

I expect the key there is "with parents permission"

Doubtless some of the better parented kids turn up and maybe even have a good day, but can't you just hear it from the DPs of the rest:

"They're having a meltdown and can't get out of bed, it's 'humiliating', and what if they pick up a needle??!!!"

Ever thought 'the education system is shit' is because so much time, effort and funding is spent on the pupils who are disruptive, agressive and entitled? There's no chance for those who want to learn if the teacher's time is spent on crowd control, evacuation of the class when one pupil kicks off, or as suggested here, they stop teaching and start counselling the violent prepretators.

/boak

kids are people and they don’t need to be forced into conforming

so what is your solution? that kids should be allowed to do whatever it is they want in school? attend some lessons, not others? pick the teacher they want to teach them? have a timetable with timings that are personalised for them? what?

Nah, too simple. Much better to find something to have a good moan about especially if your child's just had a detention. 😂

@mitogoshi how do they enforce the litter picking? Surely the kids just don't turn up?

@ballybean was your kid not embarrassed to be put in detention? Mine would be. And they would be told off at home for being dicks. Unless it was something very petty.

If there's only 3 tables in there I doubt any misbehaving child is in there for long unless it's really working and misbehaviour is minimal.
How big is this school?

There was a room like this at DDs school although when she was there it was being used as a room for sixth form studying. I'm not sure why it had glass but I thought it was because there were no windows to the outside and otherwise would have been dark.

now, now.

that kind of language will get you a stint in the glass box.

Schools are busy places (especially secondary schools) and teachers are busy people. IME pupils get put in these rooms for , inter alia, disrupting classes. It gives them time to settle and hopefully reflect on their behaviour while allowing those who are interested in learning to do so. What would your suggestions for dealing with such pupils be ?(stocks might be a bit excessive). While a lower pupil:teacher ratio is highly desirable suggestion its not likely to happen.
My solution would be for parents to back the school by developing good communication with the pastoral care team and their child's form teacher/head of year