To ask about ND masking in girls - school say she seems 'fine'

@DimLlaeth when you say college is having an impact, is this in a good or bad way? We were hoping college would be better because it is less prescriptive.

I'm a teacher and also autistic myself (very late adult diagnosis) so can see the situation from both sides.

Some children, especially girls, absolutely can mask so well at school that they don't show any of the difficulties and stresses that they are struggling with.

I was a high achiever and covered up my social and communication difficulties very well.

That sounds exactly like my daughter- school said she was fine, just "quirky". She wasn't fine, she's autistic.

Diagnosed by NHS with ASD ages 16. Diagnosed privately with ADHD more recently. Part of the problem with school seeing a problem, is that she loves learning, doesn't like getting shouted at, and wasn't disruptive

I would look at ASD diagnosis, and also try to support her with managing her emotions now. Starving The Anxiety Gremlin is a good book. Also look at ADHD, if you feel she has it.

My daughter is extremely demand avoidant at home. She didn't show this at school, so didn't get a diagnosis of Pathological Demand Avoidance. However since moving into 6th form, she does display this at school. The more lenient rules, and lack of structure compared to years 7-11 at secondary are having a huge impact.

She has had a few years home educated, and her attendance is at around 50%. This is mostly due to anxiety, feeling sick/anxious and more sleep.

I wish I'd known earlier about the ASD, as I could have worked with her to find strategies to manage.

I'd work on self esteem. One of my dc found panicosaurus book very useful as visualised anxiety
We found teaching coping mechanisms worked well too
Legotherapy

Seems you need home therapy because she is so well doing at school

The recent Chris Packham documentaries included two adults, a man and a woman, who were able to mask quite successfully in the workplace and in hobbies but who were not at fine at home.

Of course, Packham himself is another example.

The other two subjects were not able to mask their differences.

"If you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person."

Does she have lots of friends or is the reality that she is on the periphery of lots of friendships pairs or groups and not quite fitting in or feeling that she fits in? Does she need to control the way the play goes and can’t cope if she can’t make the rules? Does she have a fear of missing out but not the emotional resilience to go ahead with the plans or suggestions previous agreed?

These are all examples of lacking social skills in an autistic girl.

I don’t agree with this and I say this as someone who is autistic and has two autistic children. I think that there can often be quite a divide between how autism shows between boys/girls and girls, especially bright ones, can be incredible at masking and copying neurotypical behaviour to fit in.

Masking all day (and even at home) is possible. Especially for bright girls. And schools really aren't great at spotting the less well-known signs.

Just to add DD was "fine" in school but they believed us when we described what was happening outside of school. Everyone looks out for her. We had an episode of ableist bullying (outside of school) recently and they came down on it like a ton of bricks when they found out.

The staff are really decent. The Head is fab. She sat next to DD at a panto once because she was scared of the "wicked stepmother"!

Primary teacher here, and mum to a very successful at masking girl who we are finally just starting assessment for at 15.

The children in my class who are masking are VERY good at it. I know they are masking because I listen to their parents, because I know what it's like to have a child who melts down at home but doesn't at school.

Because they're on my radar, because I've listened and because we're half way through the year, I'm better at spotting when they're struggling despite masking but it's still hard. They are masters of disguise.

I am vocal in my school when I hear someone saying "but they're totally fine", and if it's sometime new who didn't know my daughter, I pull in her old teachers to add to the argument 😂. They often say they feel so guilty for not seeing it in her but, unless you know her VERY well and see her in different situations, you wouldn't recognise it in school unless you have experience of it.

The school know nothing.
I was palmed off for years and went to all the parenting classes. My dd is now in year 10 and it's a total car crash. 2yr wait for an ASD assessment. She's not been at school since September and I can't see her going back.

I wish schools and the various services would do what parents ask for when they ask for it. So many children would come through unscathed that way.

This sounds just like our daughter and also myself at school. We are waiting for a adhd diagnosis for her and I myself have one. She hated school so much we have been home educating her since September. She is so much happier and relaxed, I see so many other children in similar positions. I know it’s not possible for everyone but it could be worth looking in to. Depending on where you are there are so many amazing things to do with them. My daughter goes to a child led group a few times a week where you can drop them off. School also wouldn’t take us seriously about the masking. It really sounds like your daughter is masking some type of ND. It seems like as long as they don’t cause problems at school they often are too interested. You could also perhaps look in to flexi schooling where they go to school part of the week. Good luck it’s very hard !

Thank you

Are you getting Early Help?
I would be really interested in how you get on with Early Help and whether it's worth it and what you get from them

Exactly like my autistic DD8. Are you in Kent?

If your DD communicates and interacts typically for substantial periods of time, she isn't autistic. @whatevss are you a professional? This is so incorrect, particularly for girls. Please stop spreading false Information.

I’d be a bit careful re going non nhs. Lorna Wing are experts re diagnosing girls. If we hadn’t had my DD’s and my diagnosis expedited under the NHS it would have been the only place I’d have considered outside the NHS.

Don’t be fobbed off by school. We were told my dd was fine. I knew she wasn’t.This was catastrophically wrong and she now has 4 x NHS diagnosis including autism and an EHCP.

https://www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/autism-training-and-best-practice/diagnostic-services

@seriouslynonames you mention you're on the wait list in Oxford. If that's your part of the world, then I'd recommend Katherine Goodsell. She's Milton Keynes / Banbury way. Offers an initial consultation for about £300 which would help determine if your daughter's difficulties are autism or something else. Totally gets girls and how the presentation can be different.

Early Help are not generally SEN specialists. We had an amazing lady but her focus was on trying to get my daughter back into school. Although when it was clear that wasn't happening, she did refer to other departments to get help.

Have a look at "anxiety gremlin" book as that might help a bit. It's a workbook for children, based on CBT.

@seriouslynonames

It is a hard choice to make on whether to stick with school or home educate.

Thankfully, I applied for an EHCP in year 6. It took about 1.5 years and two tribunals to get it anywhere near decent. However, it meant that going for a special school was easier as we already had one in our hand. Plus, it protects her until she's up to 25 years old.

She is academically highly able but is limited to about 5 GCSEs with it being a special school so she will need extra time to get more and for growing up time. Having the EHCP protects her and gives her that time. I'm not going to lie though, it was very stressful getting that EHCP. We had to spend about £3,000 on private reports to get a decent EHCP and to win at Tribunal. Plus dirty tricks were at play. You need to be one step ahead of the system to win.

She can't cross a road by herself as the basic executive functioning is not there. She could dress herself at 5 but now needs support with dressing and washing because of all that she's been through, her time blindness and low executive functioning. We really started to see this coming out at about aged 8. The more pressure to be independent, the more she couldn't cope.

It took two years at her new school to make a lovely group of friends. She still doesn't like school (when she should love it as she's so able) so we have to get through each day, one day at a time. But at least the school is supportive.

Part of me feels that, on reflection, we should have Home Edded from the off. It gives you more flexibility. However, I I'd find it hard trying to hold down my part time job while having a child at home. Also, even though are groups out there you can go to regularly, I think that she would of struggled with friendships. She needs that daily contact with the same people. I think the compromise would have been doing a half day of online schooling. But, obviously, that costs.

But, seriously, that school will be chipping away at your child's self esteem. I'd suggest starting now to look for a school that really gets it.

Just to add, there's a free screening tool here that you might find helpful:
https://help4psychology.co.uk/free-screening-child/

Ok so I don’t agree with your psychologist. This sounds 100% like my daughter (14 now) ( though we masked until year 7, I think being off during covid helped tbh)

I took her for a joint ASD and ADHD private assessment and she was diagnosed with both ( high functioning autism and inattentive adhd) . She is a great communicator , chatty and seemingly confident ( on good days) she is a school refuser , it’s very challenging at times but has been better since we’ve understood her better.

Do the joint assesment, I try for school everyday. I have also researched alternatives. Does she have a CAMHS key worker?

edited to add , our primary school thought she was fine for years. Then on top of. Her anxiety she developed OCD, then a mild eating disorder and self harm. Then basically had a nervous breakdown. She was not fine and I wish I had taken serious action sooner.