To think this country's future looks bleak due to the attitude towards having children

To be fair most stuff that people complain about on mumsnet are down to lifestyle choices

MN is not "for" parents and hasn't been for years.

It's called Mumsnet because it's an internet site that was started by a couple of London based mums looking to make friends and share places in London to take their kids and the tagline says by parents for parents because that's how it started out and rebranding is an expensive nightmare. The name Mumsnet has value to advertisers, it really is as simple as that. It makes no financial sense to change it to Peoplenet. By people for people.

But it doesn't change the fact that Mumsnet is a forum for parents. Derision and insults and mostly antagonism about children seems a very hostile position to take.

Several posters on this thread have mused on why people aren’t having children, what can we do to make having children attractive, such as financial incentives and free childcare. But ultimately, there are a growing number of people who couldn’t be swayed by any incentives because they’ve made an active decision not to have children not simply for financial reasons but for the reasons that poster has just been honest about. I’m sure if you’re on the inside it has its joyful moments, but from the outside parenting just doesn’t look like very much fun at all - and let’s face it, threads like this where people are saying how much hard work it is being a parent and how parents need compassion and support because it’s so exhausting aren’t really promoting otherwise.

It doesn't need to be always though.
Just a redistribution.
Redistribute rather than increase. There are over 8 billion people on the planet. I don't think we're in short supply.

I genuinely don't understand why it isn't logical to move resources from where they aren't needed to where they are rather than continue to increase an already unsustainable global population.

Actually, reading that back I think I do understand. It's emotional rather than logical isn't it? Some national pride/maintaining cultures stuff even those the sensible things to do is make better use of the people we have.

There are some truly idiotic comments in here. How depressing that over half of voters think you’re being unreasonable. News flash, people: you need your citizens to have children so someone pays taxes in order for you to have a pension. You need younger citizens to fill caring and other roles so that society as you know it can continue to function.

Having children should not be viewed as a “lifestyle” choice for these and many other reasons — that is a total misunderstanding of the whole social contract we are all living in.

The fertility crisis is very real, and the fact that it is cripplingly expensive to pay for childcare on two above average incomes in this country is an absolute disgrace. The future WILL be bleak if the UK birth rate falls further, and yes, we will have to hope immigration (which no doubt many posters on here are also against, funny that) can fill in the many gaps.

This forum used to be supportive of parents, Mums, now it is full of people attacking, deriding or insulting Mums, where's the support.

What is more divisive than deriding parents on a parent forum!

I was supposed to quote this poster, it seems to me a very hostile and insulting position to take on a forum for parents!

Not this crap again. Anyone can post on MN, stop being so exclusionary and divisive.

So why the hell are you on a forum for parents named, 'Mumsnet'!

Started in relationships because my ex partner was abusing me. Stayed for AIBU and the MNetters Without Children boards (as well as the thousands of non children related posts every day). Is that ok?

Statistically that is a nonsense!

So why the hell are you on a forum for parents named, 'Mumsnet'!

It is not just about paying financially into a tax system and receiving a pension, we need younger generations to sustain the infrastructure, for economic prosperity, for being the manpower in all sorts of jobs that allow a country to function. Children are not a 'lifestyle' choice they're 'life' and without them and the sacrifices and efforts many parents go to the country would be f**ked!

Yeah, but we can at least influence how those kids grow up so we've got a fighting chance. And at least they'd be in the country... if we're raising a whole generation of kids who can't work, I'm not sure how we're going to be in a position to inventivise anyone to come here anyway.

That could be said for any person. I could have 6 children and not one of them be willing, able or desirable.

You're assuming there's always going to be a steady supply of willing, able and desirable people. I'm not sure that's a wise assumption.

"And you can't rely solely on immigration "

Why not?

That's a genuine question by the way.

People need to do jobs.
Does it matter whether people move here to do jobs or people are born here, grow up here and do jobs.
Jobs are done either way.

I'm seriously asking btw because it is entirely possible there's an element I'm missing.

All I can see is people needed in location A.
Excess of people in location B.
Surplus move from B to A, solving both under and over population problems.

It just seems logical to move an existing resource from where it is not needed to where it is needed rather than maintain an excess in one area and create new resources in another.

Extremely surprised with a lot of responses here. Of course, the state should care more about children. It's not that the village owns something to someone it's about ensuring that there is enough workforce in the future for the country to operate and develop. And you can't rely solely on immigration (I'm an immigrant myself by the way). Raising kids in this country is extremely and unnecessarily expensive. I prefer a Scandinavian system with cheap kindergartens for everyone instead of the 15/30h system we have here.

I'm having to live alone because my husband left me, not by choice. I would not have chosen this.

I found some people quite hostile, rude, judgey, nosey and overstepping when I had young children, more so than at any other time of my life, and I had DD1 nearly 19 years ago. There is and was so much hostility generated by the press and other media about single mums on benefits that people assume that's what you are - even though I was married, in a professional career, and earned more than DH. I met up with some other mums in a café and one bloke on the next table went on quite a rant about feckless teenage mums - I was about the youngest there aged 29! It was quite hilarious but also sad, and certainly not the only passive aggressive comment, unsolicited advice or outright hostility I experienced while the children were small.

I think people on mumsnet are hostile to parents having multiple children they cannot afford and then complain about how much they cost.

and yes, it’s very much a lifestyle choice. Thanks to whoever said they made a personal sacrifice to have children you gave me the biggest laugh on a glum day 😂

That about sums it up, yep! (She also reported me to HR for discrimination, which was... an event.)

Thanks for the good luck. :)

You're not being penalised. Living alone is as much a lifestyle choice as having children. If you don't like it, don't do it.

You don't seem quite sure what you're cross about. Is it people with kids or couples? Because you can be neither or both.

Yes let's penalise people who don't want to just shack up with someone ir tell them to share a house with someone instead of making everyone pay their fair share.

Why woukdnt you want to support thst...oh right cos it'd hurt your pocket if your a couple with or without children. Let othe people pay more into the system instead...sure....

So you had your first Xmas off in 8 years while she didnt even work it cos she called in sick She also had every previous Christmas off and is now insisting its deffo her turn this year (id have been tempted to tell her she was due to to 8 Xmases in a row like you did) I knew a sickie would get pulled. No wonder you are job hunting. Good luck with it but i dont think you will need it. 🙂