To think this country's future looks bleak due to the attitude towards having children

40 years ago the carbon footprint of having children was not known. I am an only child. I have chosen to not have children. My parents' choices several decades ago has no bearing on what we know today and the decisions we make today based on said knowledge.

To suggest that it would be better if my parents had decided to not have me says more about you than it does me.

I disagree that mumsnet is anti-children. It's largely made up of parents.

Would you rather they had an abortion than claim benefits then?

Perhaps the realisation that it is an alternative if you can't be arsed to sort contraception before a night of pleasure.

So much this.

the desire to rely on grandparents rather than building a friendship with parents around you makes no sense. Or even just giving the tiniest bit of effort to your existing friends.

Too many selfish people asking why everyone else isn’t selfless.

We have a me me me attitude about everything, not just kids. Very individualistic. It's not healthy. For goodness sake we have a mental health crisis, we've had decades of Age UK adverts about lonely old people, DH brings home something or other from the Samaritans at the train station on a weekly basis - and people think society is fine? Human beings are supposed to function as a collective society and we don't want to anymore. The state has become a surrogate "village", but it's a poor substitute in reality.

@AmethystSparkles pls don’t take it to heart. I truly believe in a safety net & I have a good income. I have friends with good incomes who also believe in a safety net. The ones who don’t or are slagging those of on here are likely getting some form of benefit but feel the need to punch down.

Did you mean to be so rude?

You know, unlike a lot of the harsh people on this thread, a lot of us are sensitive/autistic and don’t cope very well in this capitalist society. We often become physically or mentally unwell. We don’t usually have the same earning potential as those who can cope with more stress. That’s why the welfare state exists.

I guess that means that none of us should have children. Maybe it’s a good idea to remove our genes from the gene pool and let all you superior beings get on with earning your 100k plus salaries. Then you can remove the benefits system altogether and if any of you (God forbid) become ill or disabled you can just starve.

So far there seems to be no coherent plan for what we're going to do with an aging population, except for increasing the pension age which isn't an actual solution.

You know you can’t bring logic into a debate like this?!

Both are lifestyle choices. Your choice to have children has a massive carbon footprint, which directly affects this planet.

No, people don't have children for that reason. But it is something that the government should take into account, because falling birthrates is a political issue. And the alternative - immigration - is also a huge political issue.

So far there seems to be no coherent plan for what we're going to do with an aging population, except for increasing the pension age which isn't an actual solution.

Child free by choice here. You won't get a shred of sympathy off me

The ones at the lower end of the income scales and not contributing "enough" financially will be the ones cleaning the hospital so that the doctor on £100k patching you up and paying oodles of tax can do their job properly. Etc etc etc.
Everyone has value and worth, don't be such a snob.

100% this x

It's a biological/sociological norm to have children. Remaining child free is the "lifestyle choice" IMO.
I hate that "it's a Lifestyle choice" is used as a stick to beat people with when pandemics/wars/inflation happens and suddenly children who were previously comfortably provided for are now heading into poverty.
Or "it's a lifestyle choice so nobody earning less than £50k per year should be allowed a family".
It's just a knobby attitude.

I once had an elderly lady tell me to tell my toddler who wasn't making much noise other than babbling "tell it to shut up". It wasn't even a smart cafe. One of those joined to a bakery. I can't imagine it happening in other places

And those who earn more than 100k make up only a tiny portion of society.

It’s the entitlement that gets me, too many people think that having children means that they have the right to a huge amount of financial help from tax payers. Nursery fees are short term not a life long cost. Yes, they are expensive. Unless you earn over £100,000 you get 20% in tax free childcare. This is help. There are some people who won’t be happy until they get free world class child care and the right to years of MAT leave. And they’ll still complain that this isn’t enough. Having kids is hard and expensive and always has been. Get on with it or don’t do it.

It is a choice though. And arguably a lifestyle. There's nothing wrong with saying so.
It's not mandatory. That makes it a choice. You generally have to live a certain way which makes it a lifestyle. Put together and we have ... A lifestyle choice. 🤷

And so what if people move from other countries to fill vacancies? They need jobs, we have jobs, global population not increased just for the sake of it.

Sounds like a win all round.

Global redistribution of population as part of a worldwide goal of reducing the number of people on the planet to a sustainable level would be wonderful.

It won't ever happen.

But it would be wonderful.

People are far too selfish and unable to even look after their selves to have kids these days. Some of the comments on mumsnet show this. Bitter and jealous judgemental lot.

@fitzwilliamdarcy I totally agree with this. I have been in many restaurants on the continent where small children are present late in the evening. They are part of the gathering and sit at the table joining in with family. I have never seen a child running around a restaurant because they won't/can't sit at the table - nor are they playing on ipads. That is why they are welcome.

I was on holiday once in a Spanish resort particularly popular with Mumsnetters. E were a group of 2 families with 5 children aged 2 - 8. When been there an hour or so when a British couple, who had eaten and were just leaving, complimented us on how well behaved our children were. All they were doing was sitting at the table chatting and eating. It made me wonder what other behaviour they'd seen from British kids to feel moved to compliment ours!

Maybe the UK is just a hostile place in general.

Mental health is very adversely affected by a hostile and unaccepting environment.