AIBU to ask if you believe that a labour government will go some way to fixing the NHS?

No. It needs the sort of reform no party will dare to do for fear of alienating voters. It will be no better, if not worse.

…being basically every developed country in the world, regardless of whether their then-current government was left wing or right wing…

If Labour’s approach is to throw ever more enormous sums of money at the NHS while ignoring the organisational dysfunction & massive inefficiencies it won’t improve and the money will be wasted.

If they are serious about structural reform and about learning from other countries which have better universal healthcare systems than we do, it might improve. But, in order to do so, they will have to be prepared for a massive fight with the unions & other vested interests who will inevitably squeal about ‘privatisation’ at the mention of anything changing or of patients being given a real choice.

Yes. I remember the NHS under the previous (pre 1997) Tory government and it was terrifying: running out of anaesthetic in major central London teaching hospital, the cries of patients on trolleys lining the corridors...

It improved drastically under Labour. As did child poverty, homelessness and other social ills.

(I've never voted Labour myself, but certainly would choose them over Conservative government if I lived somewhere where voting tactically could make a difference.)

The NHS is not short of money its short of decent managers. There are way too many "suits" roaming around with clipboards and not enough front line staff
That would be a start. My DIL works for them and tells me it's rife with lazy grifters with "jobs for life" who they can't get rid of . Strong management needed to get rid of all the dead wood, and they need to start at the top

"Only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked.
Warren Buffett"

The main reason that higher tier authorities are struggling financially is that the system for funding social care nationally is completely and utterly broken.

Councils are having to support an ageing population with increasingly complex needs. Due to increased demand and the government’s recent Fair Cost of Care Analysis, some care providers have hiked their prices enormously in a short space of time. This was enough to push many local authorities into the red. Our unitary council now spends almost 2/3 of its budget on social care.

Needless to say, a struggling social care system puts a lot of pressure on the NHS, most obviously through delayed discharges AKA “bed-blocking”.

they will wreck the economy as they did the last time they were in office.

They didn’t wreck the economy. It was damaged by a global financial crisis with its origins in the US.

No

The NHS model is burst. It was designed for another time. People just don’t like to have difficult conversations about the NHS as people are massively emotionally invested in it, so it’s a political hot potato.

It’s not fixable.

I worked in the NHS during the Labour years and would agree that things were vastly better than before 1997 but they did implement some policies which when combined with the subsequent Tory austerity are still causing problems today.

https://www.ippr.org/media-office/nhs-hospitals-under-strain-over-80bn-pfi-bill-for-just-13bn-of-actual-investment-finds-ippr#

4 hour waits were often fudged in very inefficient ways. I've been pressured to temporarily admit patients to specialities they didn't need and may not have received the correct specialist care in just because that department had an empty bed and the patients 4 hours in A+E was running out.

The Tories amended targets but didn't not abolish them. Increased waiting times in A+E have happened for many complex reasons which includes increased attendance rates, lack of community care resulting in bed blocking and insufficient staff.

I agree with a PP Bevins NHS was never intended to become today's NHS.

Nope only have to look at Wales. And they should of used that an opportunity to do really great thing s to really show people how better it could be, wasted the opportunity and instead shown us what it will really be like...fucking crap

The litigation that has affected them has been widely reported.

Yes, I am in Nottingham and it isn’t looking good….

No. The only way to help the NHS is to privatise it, whilst keeping it free to use.

It's all cyclical, if labour are in power they spend spend spend increasing the national debt, voters get sick of it and Tories get in who then cut cut cut and repay national debt, rinse and repeat. 🫠 at least under labour things get reset and patched up!

Birmingham city is high profile. As is Nottingham

At least you can be sure that Labour won't try to privatise the NHS, actually believe in it and will be willing to compromise when dealing with strike action by healthcare professionals and will do their best to fund it correctly.

The current useless and corrupt government has no interest in improving or funding the NHS. They only see it as something else to privatise and make money from.

Everything I have read suggests the fundamental cause is a policy of underfunding from central government. I'd be interested to read more on litigation though if you have any links.

No I don't think so. I spent 30 years working in the NHS and left in 2018. It was equally bad under conservatives and Labour, although I expect it is particularly bad at the moment. I think the money needed to bring it up to anywhere what it needs to be just isn't there sadly without hugely increasing taxes and then a lot would be wasted as it has been for many years.

If Labour throw money at the NHS, yes they can improve it. However, if they do it at the expense of public finances, they will wreck the economy as they did the last time they were in office. Which will lead to another Tory government and cycle of necessary austerity. There is no magic money tree and Labour have a tendancy towards economic illiteracy which benefits nobody in the end because it wrecks growth and living standards.

We need a reset. Health spending can grow at any rate we care to fund and still not be sufficient with more expensive treatments and longer lifespans. While people balk at the idea, private provision of healthcare services combined with "free to use" insurance backed by the state is the only real solution here. It works very well in other countries and is the only future in my opinion for a state backed health system.

Labour have shown they are able to take bold gambles (Bank of England independence was one), I hope they have the courage to do so again.

Is your question actually “can I continue to vote Tory and blame Labour when I can no longer afford healthcare?”

Seriously? There are no targets targets for either a&e or cancer treatment? I had no idea. Do you know when they were removed? I do remember seeing the target wait time versus actual on a board at our local a&e but I hadn't realised it was so long ago. Now you've pointed it out - that board definitely isn't there now. I've been quite a few time the last few months unfortunately and I do remember looking for it one time just to get an idea of how long the wait might be

Actually in many cases it’s due to litigation pushed by the unions.

No
I don't think any government would be willing to do what is needed to save the NHS.

The party that created the NHS under Bevin is what is needed now

I'd suggest the issue there is that what Bevin created and what the NHS has become are very different, as are the public's expectations of it - and those expectations won't be easy to manage now that mortality's become a dirty word and so many expect their loved ones to be supported way beyond their natural lifespan

This is how we've got to the point where the death of a 93 year old is described as "a tragedy", and with a rapidly aging population I'm not sure this attitude's sustainable