AIBU to ask if you believe that a labour government will go some way to fixing the NHS?

Lazy indeed. Can never get my mum a face to face. Look at their car parking spaces and they are hardly there. It is the poor receptionists I feel sorry for. One of them at my mums surgery is leaving because she has had enough of the GPs laziness. Maybe your experience is different. Let us judge by our own experiences. Don’t give me any of that Tory nonsense either.

The Labour government supports the nhs workforce plan, which brings in 10, 000 associate physicians. This is moving us to an American model where many of the so called medical experts we see are not at all, but have two years training instead of five. I think it's a shit system, but there you have it. From what I see, no party now will support the NHS as we have known it.

Expect a lot more posts on here complaining about "the doctor ", when it actually isn't.

Agree. Lack of state regulation/involvement is a key underlying principle of right wing /Tory politics. Of course they want to do away with the NHS - or at least leave a skeleton public health service for “the poor” with people paying for their own health care.

Add to that, the NHS is no longer fit for purpose. Bevin didn’t foresee (nor could anyone have) the development of expensive interventions to diagnose/treat illness and disease. Patented drugs which people want but cost a fortune. Acute stroke units which save lives but leave people disabled and needing care for the rest of their lives.

Robotic surgery, gamma knife radiation, biological agents, IVF, reconstructive and preventative surgery, genetic testing…..the list goes on.

We all want “the best” for ourselves and our loved ones but it comes at a cost. Advances in care mean people are living longer with chronic disease - your 80 year old granny who would have died from her stroke 30 years ago will now have a good chance of surviving and making it into a nursing home - being looked after by young Nigerian guys who don’t really give a damn and who cannot communicate with her. And she’ll sell her home to pay for the privilege.

She’ll be on probably about 5 drugs and if she gets dementia, these will be dispensed 3/4 times a day then thrown out because she’ll refuse to swallow them. May also be prescribed expensive high protein drinks because she won’t eat, which again will be poured away because she won’t drink them either. Ditto meals.

And don’t get me started on the high fluoride toothpaste at £14 a tube which will be wasted as granny won’t allow her teeth to be brushed.

As an HCP with more than 30 years experience across the NHS/private/education sector, sadly I believe that some form of private health on a mass scale is necessary to maintain some semblance of an NHS which can meet the fundamental needs of all. But not the steamroller way the Tories are doing it - an open and transparent managed introduction of paid for aspects of care.

I also genuinely believe that assisted dying needs to be accepted - not because the elderly/those with incurable conditions etc cost too much - but because the NHS has “saved” people who probably would have been better dying earlier. I don’t know of one single person who wouldn’t want control over their death yet we remain resistant to it.

It’s all a bit grim really.

No one wants to make the decision of what needs to be cut or privately paid for by the public.

Privatising is definitely not the answer. That will set us on the road to a system like the U.S. Healthcare outcomes are absolutely awful in America. Once you start privatising it starts to escalate and the system becomes only about profit and cutting services.

We would end up with just as bad a system, similarly bad outcomes, less services, but with more money going to private companies.

The evidence in Wales is not good, but here in Scotland it's a shitshow with Scooter boy Yusaf and the SNP unable to run a menodge. We see what the Tories are doing and in northern ireland it's even worse as until recently noone was on charge.

@Rachel757677
Lazy GPs ffs! What a telling comment!
How's Tory HQ this morning ?

@Rachel757677 the NHS has always been crap? I wonder what age you are? I really disagree with you.Had two children in the clean , efficient NHS hospitals, had my life saved in one , have had family and friends lives saved and cared for. I love the NHS ! We should hang our head in shame what we have allowed happen to it!

Yes I think they will. However, people have to accept that to have a high standard NHS we need higher taxes, which the British public do not appear to want to do. Look at the Scandi countries as an example. It appears Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor has no plan to raise taxes in any remarkable way but what she has put forward(non dom tax etc) is a start.

The NHS is beyond help. It is crap and always has been. Since the pandemic it has just got even worse than it was.

People like the idea of The NHS because it is a good idea. However, like a lot of good ideas it simply does not work.

The service it provides is shambolic…. The situation with the lazy GPs has got to the point where even poor people have to go private.

Nope

I dont really understand what is wrong with the NHS so I dont know how to fix.

I feel like there is a massive lack of staff and that they take years to train and that there arent enough people to train them.

Immigration hotels soak up millions everyday.

And that’s entirely deliberate. The backlog for processing claims needs to be cleared as a matter of urgency. That’s one of Labour’s first priorities to free up money to improve services.

Not at all. The NHS is completely broken as are the people who work within it.

Any input and say that used to come from senior consultants has been taken away so they are disengaged. Years ago the medics had more say and knew how to run theatres for example. Bringing in a manager to run theatres who used to be a manager for Asda doesn’t work, as they don’t understand how theatres should work efficiently. Consultant led LLPs are the way to go; in our hospital on a normal hospital led operating list, they do 3/4 operations. On an LLP list where the consultant leads and organises it, they do 8!

To say nothing of said managers having meetings for meetings sake wasting time and resources and not being able to see the bigger picture.

Also Labour run the NHS in Wales-and they are completely fucked with 4 year waits for surgery! And they have more money/head spent which shows it is not all about money being put in.

This. It needs a total overhaul and that would be too expensive ATM. When Labour get in they will have no money than the Conservatives had unless they raise taxes or borrow more. DWP department spends too much. Not enough left for everything else. Immigration hotels soak up millions everyday.

No, they won’t get in. Labour are no better than the Tories. The advantage that Labour have right now is they can pretend they will do the ‘right thing’ but they won’t. They don’t even have the funds to do it even if they wanted to. People have to be realistic about what can and can’t happen.

The NHS will get worse under another Tory government. It might not under a non-Tory one.

People honestly think the funding model is the root cause of everything....It really isn't. Whether the money comes from state banked insurance, private insurance or straight from the state is largely immaterial (,there's a paper on this). What matters is consistent long term funding (so you can plan ahead and invest/be strategic) aligned to the actual population and it's needs.
What we have actually had over the last 13 years is real term cuts to capital and training budgets (so crumbling buildings, out of date scanners and people still writing up paper notes on wards...oh and not enough Drs and nurses). We've had last minute dobs of cash for hair brained schemes and winter pressures. Which largely can't be spent usefully as it's not planned and one off (but adds to the 'look we throw money at it' narrative). AND spending it's still lower per person (which is the key metric as it's the numbers of people to treat that matter) than many many developed nations. Oh and we have an aging sick nation due to demographics, crap food, housing and shit poorly paid work. We are sicker, fatter and older (at a population level) Ryan many countries that spend far more on health.
Can labour turn this round. Well... Not in a parliament no. Drs and other staff take ages to train, the estates backlog is insane (even if you had the capital investment) and getting people less sick is an enormous incredibly complex issue that would require a complete change in our social attitude and cohesion (unlikely). I think they are very intent on reform and improvements... They'll crack the whip and hopefully invest strategically. They'll need to reform medical training, culture and practice and ideally bring GP's into the NHS which is going to have the BMA screaming blue murder and will likely cost (stuff their mouths with gold again). They are going to have to do something about management and leadership (there are not 'too many managers' as robustly proven by a Kings Fund paper) which is also not a quick fix. And they'll have to do it all whilst dealing with the existing back log and workforce melt down.

But on balance I'd still give them a better chance than this shower of lying incompetent cockwombles who partied whilst NHS staff were getting loved ones to say good bye via iPads...

Yes I do believe that Labour will improve some areas of the NHS but I don't think it will be easy.
Having worked in the NHS for a long time I can remember the time of a labour government. They had much longer term plans that were actually thought through and effective. It wasn't just about more money although funding was more realistic.
The current government haven't had any decent long term plans for change and improvement they are constantly changing the vision and priorities in order to look good rather than any long term thinking about genuine improvement and stability.
The last 14 years have been the worst I've known even removing the last four and the absolute chaos of the pandemic. The management of that at government level was unforgivable

The Tories have had 14 years in which time absolutely every service is absolutely buggered! Even if Labour do get in it's going to take years to fix all this mess, it's a poisonous chalice!

They won't be able to do anything without raising taxes and that's what they'll do. Tax and spend.

Unlike the current government whose policy seems to have been Tax and Give to your Mates.

If we have money why have we had so many strikes by NHS workers that haven't been resolved?

It seems that one in five pensioners are now planning to vote Labour. They’re even losing their core vote.

Won't they get in? What do you think will happen? People will suddenly realise the Tories are right?

My worry is as a pp mentioned, that they will increase funding but it just be spent on increasing salaries and not improve the service. It needs huge reform and probably changing to a system more like France of Germany.

I do think that people look back with rose tinted glasses at the NHS in labour era

Have the statistics got rose tinted glasses?

https://assets.kingsfund.org.uk/f/256914/x/be21b1302c/high_performing_summary_nhs_2010.pdf