AIBU to ask if you believe that a labour government will go some way to fixing the NHS?

yes. that's why they got rid of the targets because people were just fixing them anyway (if you read any books by those working in a&es back then they all mention fudging the numbers).

You also can't compare 2008 and 2023, we are living in a world where the NHS was crippled by a pandemic for 2 years resulting in loss of staff and a huge backlog of waiting times we are catching up with. Add that to an aging population and increasing population and those 15 years are worlds apart.

I'm not saying the NHS now is good...it is 100% NOT and it needs major reform but every time it is even brought up people cry and scream that we don't want an Americanised system (even though we are a loooong way from that). I am saying people seem to look back on the NHS during Labour times and think it was great when it was already nearing collapse then.

We won’t be doing PFI again anyway to provide a period of spend now pay way more later

Those private mark ups are too big

Plus general context

Have the statistics got rose tinted glasses?

Depends who's providing them, @Blossomtoes

We've had at least four of these waiting time graphs on recent threads, all widely differing, and as we all know stats can be manipulated to prove anything depending on how whatever-it-is gets counted

The NHS is beyond recovery in its current form. Like that other socialist leviathan the welfare state, it was built on the wrong premise.
Nye Bevan believed that giving people free health care from the cradle to the grave would make us all healthier. The opposite has occurred, people do not take responsibility for their own health, why should they when the state will pick up the tab. So as a society we are getting sicker and making greater demands on the system.
Until people realise that socialism and its great state institutions don't work we will continue to decline as a country

Anyone thinking "lifestyle choice" changes would save us, you might want to rethink
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68425021

No because I think any real improvement will take years to show

I know one woman who won't vote labour because of this. And I've asked a lot of women friends. It's not like the Tories have looked after women.

You have to go with the least bad. And frankly I'm not sure there's ever been a government as bad as this one in living memory. Labour won't be perfect but they won't be Johnson and Sunak. Oh and I nearly forgot Truss.

It's a valid point though. Reality is that many women won't vote for labour. They might vote for a party other than conservative if there is a suitable candidate (which will still have the same impact of allowing labour in because it splits the vote) but they wont vote directly for labour

It was so much better under the last Labour government. So yes, I think would improve.

Not really because until that is fixed there's no point in looking at any of the other discussions.
It's all just theoretical of "if this party was a viable option for women then could they help the NHS" which is then a pointless discussion until the situation blocking them being an option is fixed.

You've made some points that are excellent. I stopped reading your post mid way. I think you and others really need to watch the NHS programme that has been on TV recently you do realise that it was the FOREIGN people why we have a NHS today.... and the "young Nigerian". That is a very racist remark to make. Don't you want to address why "Foreign" people are left doing certain jobs? Or are you not willing to acknowledge the fact that a good percent of certain people are lazy?

Its a valid point though. There is no point in thinking that Labour will save the NHS (it cant) when they are simultaniously dismantling womens rights.

I am not a tory by the way. Both parties are dragging us to hell - Labour will just get us there quicker

No I dont. They will mostly like it fill it with MORE diversity managers bullshit.

Labour are TERRIBLE at managing money. Yes they spend a lot but leave the pot empty so que another 'austerity" decade when the tories get back in.

Honestly I could fucking cry at how bad our major parties are.

For the love of God, can’t we have a single thread about anything remotely political without someone piping up with this? Go and start a thread about it if you want to talk about it. This one doesn’t need yet another bunfight to derail it.

Until labour can protect women's and girls rights to safety from men it doesn't even matter what their other policies are.
If a party can't answer what a woman is then they aren't going to be able to pass laws to keep our daughters safe.

This is how I feel.

this is a big problem for Labour right now.

I really don’t. I haven’t heard enough from them on how they’ll fix it.

it will be non popular policies I expect that will resolve problems so they won’t want to campaign on it. But I don’t trust them to do it. And I’m a Labour supporter - I’m just really disillusioned with politics right now.

ANY political party that seriously and honestly says how they will fix social care in this country would get my vote. It’s disgraceful how it keeps getting pushed under the carpet because no one wants to sort it.

The simple fact is, I’m happy to admit I’ve got no idea what will happen over the next few years. The only thing I’m certain of is that whoever is in charge is going to do a crap job of it.

Its really not rocket science. There has been lots of fancy job roles in the NHS that have been created and not needed! Paying out in ££ in wages. NHS use agency of their own on top of other companies too. Why don't they address why they can't keep permanent staff? People can barely afford to live and those that can aren't doing that fantastically where they could afford to pay for private treatment.

This narrative of money "given to mates", other than Michelle Mone, the rhetoric is bollocks frankly. Labour used the same private support for products and services as the Tories and will continue to do so. You cannot run a massive service like the NHS and not use the private sector. From pens to MRI's, to IT systems the NHS procurement system is massive. You know who makes most of the decisions for spend? NHS trusts, not "the government".

That's not GP laziness. It's chronic underfunding. You're not going to get surgeries having more GP hours than they've funding for. That's the Tory nonsense in practice.

This with bells on.

Right. So what do you think will happen then? Because it is extremely unlikely to be the Tories again and we do have a two party system in reality.

All this "they're all as bad as each other" stuff is over simplistic. Both sides may be bad in ways but they're not bad in the same ways so we have to pick our battles.

@Zonder - sorry my reply was overly simplistic on the rush out. We don't have enough money, we're still massively underfunded (I'm talking about my service) which I fight every day for. But it's incredibly hard to sound valid when we can't fill the vacancies we have (and ours in a well respected service) It's not an attractive job anymore (even in the services that are funded better) and it's incredibly emotionally demanding.