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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think an ambulance should have been called?

130 replies

TotoroElla · 05/03/2024 16:04

Can someone tell me what protocol should be followed in supported accommodation if someone has a fall (unwitnessed - they were heard falling in their room) and shortly afterwards they are found extremely drowsy/non-responsive?

I'm in the middle of trying to make a complaint and still waiting to talk to the manager 6 weeks later. The member of staff involved is still working. The manager just said to me today all procedures were followed correctly and will send me an appointment to speak about it. I want to be prepared to challenge her.

Thanks

OP posts:
Sharptonguedwoman · 06/03/2024 17:56

TotoroElla · 05/03/2024 16:04

Can someone tell me what protocol should be followed in supported accommodation if someone has a fall (unwitnessed - they were heard falling in their room) and shortly afterwards they are found extremely drowsy/non-responsive?

I'm in the middle of trying to make a complaint and still waiting to talk to the manager 6 weeks later. The member of staff involved is still working. The manager just said to me today all procedures were followed correctly and will send me an appointment to speak about it. I want to be prepared to challenge her.

Thanks

Definitely an ambulance. My mum falls from time to time (in care home) and they always ring and tell me and if it's at all a worry, call an ambulance.

kittensinthekitchen · 05/03/2024 23:43

I recognised this from you posting about it when it happened. When did the staff change their story as to what happened? Have you seen a copy of the incident report with the timeline from both members of staff involved?

Who told you his original diagnosis (stroke)?

MustBeGinOclock · 05/03/2024 21:56

Yes risk assessment and policy should be in place. Also ask to see accident report form and what obs were taken post fall to ensure all OK

TraitorsGate · 05/03/2024 21:47

Nearest relative is someone involved in their care, do you know if anyone was appointed who may be able to support you both.

Original poster
TotoroElla · 05/03/2024 21:44

TraitorsGate · 05/03/2024 21:34

Last question, promise, you said you are nok, are you also listed as nearest relative under the mental health act

No I would not be considered the nearest relative.

OP posts:
TraitorsGate · 05/03/2024 21:34

Last question, promise, you said you are nok, are you also listed as nearest relative under the mental health act

EndoEnd · 05/03/2024 21:31

Andthereyougo · 05/03/2024 16:15

“and shortly afterwards they are found extremely drowsy/non-responsive?”

on that info I’d have called an ambulance.

Absolutely

TraitorsGate · 05/03/2024 21:28

You could also read up about 117 aftercare just to familiarise yourself with their responsibilities after a section 3

TraitorsGate · 05/03/2024 21:11

Archived cqc can mean it's been taken over by a new company/provider

Original poster
TotoroElla · 05/03/2024 21:02

TraitorsGate · 05/03/2024 20:55

Google Rethink Supported Housing, it gives some info on the different types of aftercare, if he was on a section 3 is he fully funded. You can also dm me if you want if you think I can help,

Yes he was on a section 3. And thank you, that's very kind.

OP posts:
Happyorchidlady · 05/03/2024 21:02

I’m a social worker. You need to be reporting this to Adult Safeguarding at the local council. Your relative doesn’t need to consent to this as you are raising concerns that have consequences for other residents. It is then up to social services to liaise with your relative as to what action they want take for their specific scenario but it won’t stop enquires being made regarding the setting. The local authority can then notify relevant parties eg cqc is they are registered to provide personal care.

Original poster
TotoroElla · 05/03/2024 20:58

AttwoodBerryDee · 05/03/2024 20:38

@TotoroElla i work in this precise field so if you wanted to DM with more details I'd be happy to help. Totally understand if you don't want to share it with a stranger though!

That's very kind, thank you.

OP posts:
Original poster
TotoroElla · 05/03/2024 20:56

jupiterhigh · 05/03/2024 20:32

Is it a larger care provider? If it is have a look at its website and see if the complaints policy is there or if there is a place to report concerns. It will then go outside the manager.
I can understand a mental health service not having strong policies and training in place around falls, I am not saying it's right but they tend to train to the needs of the people supported, but I would expect the basics of seeking emergency healthcare to be in place.
Do you know if it cqc registered? It may not be if it is primarily mental health support.
If it isn't and even if it is, your starting point needs to be the local authority safeguarding team, google it and you will probably be able to report it online.
6 weeks is not acceptable to be looking into this.

It looks like is has been archived under the CQC. It looks like a company that runs care homes too but I don't think this supported accommodation is under the CQC. I'll look for the LA safeguarding team, thank you.

OP posts:
TraitorsGate · 05/03/2024 20:55

Google Rethink Supported Housing, it gives some info on the different types of aftercare, if he was on a section 3 is he fully funded. You can also dm me if you want if you think I can help,

Original poster
TotoroElla · 05/03/2024 20:49

jupiterhigh · 05/03/2024 20:32

Is it a larger care provider? If it is have a look at its website and see if the complaints policy is there or if there is a place to report concerns. It will then go outside the manager.
I can understand a mental health service not having strong policies and training in place around falls, I am not saying it's right but they tend to train to the needs of the people supported, but I would expect the basics of seeking emergency healthcare to be in place.
Do you know if it cqc registered? It may not be if it is primarily mental health support.
If it isn't and even if it is, your starting point needs to be the local authority safeguarding team, google it and you will probably be able to report it online.
6 weeks is not acceptable to be looking into this.

Yes, it's xxxx care group plc. There are no policies on its website. Apparently all staff are highly experienced! There is a phone number.

To be fair, many of the people are on strong medication which can make them liable to falls after they have taken it. This is another question mark for me as the staff member insisted he had not had his night medication as I wondered if this had caused the fall. Once he has taken it noone should be knocking on his door. Honestly, it's a mess and my head is spinning with it.

I'm sure the manager is going to try and fudge it. She told me procedures were followed correctly. How can they have been if I phone an ambulance and it is there in 5 minutes? If medical help was sought with those symptoms then an ambulance would have been sent. It feels like a lot of covering up is going on.

OP posts:
AttwoodBerryDee · 05/03/2024 20:38

@TotoroElla i work in this precise field so if you wanted to DM with more details I'd be happy to help. Totally understand if you don't want to share it with a stranger though!

Original poster
TotoroElla · 05/03/2024 20:37

AttwoodBerryDee · 05/03/2024 20:30

Every company (regardless of the service they provide) should have a robust policy yes, but housing providers have an obligation under law to respond to complaints in a timely manner which is why I asked 🙂

I hope you don't think I'm being nosy- I do think an ambulance should have been called but escalation routes may be different if they're under CQC registered care, Ofsted provider care, supported accommodation etc.

Show quote history

I see, thank you. And no not nosey atall - you're being incredibly helpful. I'll see what I can glean from the website.

OP posts:
Original poster
TotoroElla · 05/03/2024 20:35

TraitorsGate · 05/03/2024 20:30

The hospital would have a record of his social worker involved in him going into the sheltered accommodation. Was he ever sectioned . Do you know who owns or runs the house. Seems a lot of questions, don't mean to pry but is it on Google.

Show quote history

Ah, right, thank you. Yes, he was sectioned and came out on a CTO - but that has been lifted now. I've looked it is run by a company and there is a website. And please ask away. I really appreciate everyone helping me so much with this. I just got so angry about it today when speaking to the manager.

OP posts:
AttwoodBerryDee · 05/03/2024 20:32

@TotoroElla if you have the managers email address I assume that shows the organisation she works for- give their customer service call and ask for her line manager and escalate the complaint. 6 weeks is appalling.

jupiterhigh · 05/03/2024 20:32

Is it a larger care provider? If it is have a look at its website and see if the complaints policy is there or if there is a place to report concerns. It will then go outside the manager.
I can understand a mental health service not having strong policies and training in place around falls, I am not saying it's right but they tend to train to the needs of the people supported, but I would expect the basics of seeking emergency healthcare to be in place.
Do you know if it cqc registered? It may not be if it is primarily mental health support.
If it isn't and even if it is, your starting point needs to be the local authority safeguarding team, google it and you will probably be able to report it online.
6 weeks is not acceptable to be looking into this.

Original poster
TotoroElla · 05/03/2024 20:31

supersonicginandtonic · 05/03/2024 20:28

@TotoroElla sorry about the funny question but does he have any history of drug use? Also how long was he unconscious for?

He has used drugs in the past. However he has been clean for many years now. He has never used drugs while he has been at this accommodation. I don't know how long he was unconscious for. I only know he was when I got there!

OP posts:
AttwoodBerryDee · 05/03/2024 20:30

TotoroElla · 05/03/2024 20:24

I don't know. I'll try and found out.

Surely they must have a complaints procedure anyway with a timescale for response?

Show quote history

Every company (regardless of the service they provide) should have a robust policy yes, but housing providers have an obligation under law to respond to complaints in a timely manner which is why I asked 🙂

I hope you don't think I'm being nosy- I do think an ambulance should have been called but escalation routes may be different if they're under CQC registered care, Ofsted provider care, supported accommodation etc.

TraitorsGate · 05/03/2024 20:30

TotoroElla · 05/03/2024 20:20

Oh, right. It was arranged when he was in the psychiatric hospital.

Show quote history

The hospital would have a record of his social worker involved in him going into the sheltered accommodation. Was he ever sectioned . Do you know who owns or runs the house. Seems a lot of questions, don't mean to pry but is it on Google.

supersonicginandtonic · 05/03/2024 20:28

@TotoroElla sorry about the funny question but does he have any history of drug use? Also how long was he unconscious for?

Original poster
TotoroElla · 05/03/2024 20:27

AttwoodBerryDee · 05/03/2024 20:20

I'm possibly reading between the lines here. But OP is it the case that your relative (?) was homeless and provided accommodation with mental health support? Not deemed enough "need" to have a care package and/or a social worker?

He went into the psychiatric hospital and didn't want to return to his previous accomodation so they helped secure him housing. I assume it was the social worker at the hospital that sorted it.

OP posts:
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