To wonder if DINKs will be more lonely when older?

@IloveAslan

We couldn’t get them placed in a care home. They were still able to cope to a certain extent with carers coming in and our support. It was only - in all instances - whenever there were catastrophic issues, such as major falls, that they were then assessed as in need of a care home place and we managed to get them on the list.

One of them was told to go to first care home available, but refused to move until the one of her choosing was available, so bed blocked in hospital for 4 weeks to attain her place.

In both instances money was no issue, it was the availability of a care home place.

Your Mum had a catastrophic incident with no prequel, your father was lucky enough to get into a fold type situation (all my relatives refused that).

I agree with you - the church is the main support if there is no family, have seen this with some of my parents friends without children and residents. But you need to have an association with them and usually to have contributed money or your time and help for some time. For instance one has been on missions for the church since 30s and attends weekly.

It seems when your original point was robustly refuted you’re throwing whatever you can think of at people now.

And it mostly seems to involve people pooing themselves.

The hilarity continues. Another half-quote followed by ramblings on a point that wasn’t actually raised.

We’ve gone from how awful and lonely it must be for DINKs and how they’ll die alone to ‘well, nobody can choose how they die and you might have an illness that means there’ll be someone with you all the time. So there!!’ now, when I say that I’d like to die alone.

It seems when your original point was robustly refuted you’re throwing whatever you can think of at people now.

You just can’t admit that people have different views to you. What a way to live!

I was just saying that as a gardener, in my experience gardeners are gentle, kind souls. I helped my clients with all sorts and it was never too much trouble as they were all lovely.

This is so true in my experience too. Two of my dearest friends have a little gardening business together and they are lovely to their elderly clients.

This, 100%, much more articulate than I managed. ^

@Robinni I worry about a friend now who has a single child, with two sets of DINKs and a maiden aunt in the family.

The horror, eh? Imagine being an unmarried woman, yuk. How selfish of her. 'Maiden aunt' is a horrible outdated misogynistic term btw.

I used to work in A&E. I met a lot of lonely elderly people with children and grandchildren who no longer lived nearby/in the UK, or who hardly ever visited. Having kids doesn't prevent loneliness, and it's a terrible reason to have them.

The strategies for avoiding loneliness are the same for people with children as for those without: make (and keep) friends; develop hobbies; do things you're passionate about and enjoy; and crucially - learn to love (not fear) being alone. Being alone is not the same as being lonely, but if you feel like it is, it will make life harder than it needs to be.

If you pin all of your desires to never be lonely on your kids, then at best you are setting yourself up for disappointment when they make choices that go against that desire; at worst, you will create resentment in them, and then your time with them will suffer.

I was just saying that as a gardener, in my experience gardeners are gentle, kind souls. I helped my clients with all sorts and it was never too much trouble as they were all lovely.

No, I don't have any idea about this situation.

That’s still taking the attitude that these people exist to be your unpaid servants.

Well frankly, if I was in the state these people appear to be in I would be in a care home, not struggling alone at home. I really don't understand why people would even want to stay at home when they are past coping with little help.

I'm an only child, and my parents didn't want me doing everything for them. My DM's decision was taken out of her hands, after a broken hip she went into care. My DF organised to buy himself an apartment attached to a care home and lived there for four years before his death. Other than doing a little bit of shopping I didn't have to do anything for him. When he died he had lots of hospital visitors from friends and church people - he had a much larger social circle than I have, and he was 89!

I know of a few people without families through my job. In these cases either someone from a church, or a social agency, has organised help or admittance to a care home.

well thanks for that, I guess I’m thoroughly screwed because after 2 ivf attempts and 5 miscarriages I couldn’t birth my own servants. May as well end it all now while I can.

Don't worry. I expect there is an element of exaggeration going on. And if it did happen, then I like to think it was the childless persons revenge on such a bitchy and judgemental relative. I'm guessing they knew exactly what their family thoight of them.

the situation of some siblings choices to not have a family impacted negatively on all - we could only be stretched so far.

So they should have had kids in order to save you a bit of extra work? Ffs. You really are a piece of work.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/assisted-dying-france-macron-bill-b2510577.html

Right on cue. So far there isn't a provision for Alzheimers but hopefully in future people might have the opportunity to make advance directives. And guess which country we were anyway planning on retiring to, so that's handy.

@fitzwilliamdarcy

I replied saying I did think DINKs will be more lonely in old age as that’s what I’ve seen with relatives and residents I’ve cared for.

Went down a bit of a rabbit hole regards my grandmother’s siblings in particular, probably because it is quite recent. And I do feel a level of trauma that the well-being of myself, my parents, my children was impacted by them enmasse deciding not to have children and imposing a huge burden of care upon the family.

I worry about a friend now who has a single child, with two sets of DINKs and a maiden aunt in the family.

Maybe I’m being too honest!

@Robinni They were highly manipulative and controlling, throwing guilt on, one even had a log book of what they had contributed to their neice and family over the years….

I thought that would have been right up your street, given your transactional view of family relationships and responsibilities?

@sammylady37 OP loves a selective quote!

@ShufflingAlong

It was an inability to walk away from my grandmother’s much loved siblings, who regardless of their behaviour, were still suffering and vulnerable.

They had planned well to be independent always, but the simultaneous timing of their issues, nature of issues and much greater than anticipated age made it difficult.

@Robinni So basically all of the last however many pages have boiled down to you having felt undue pressure from manipulative childless elders and being resentful of it?

You’ve extrapolated from that that no childless person could ever manage in old age without doing what your relatives did, and therefore we should all be having kids to ensure that someone can be properly (rather than inappropriately) forced into having responsibility.

Christ. I mean, I’m a pretty jaded person but that’s a bit dark.

@KimberleyClark

Do you not foresee that you could get involved with other things, fostering, mentor, church, craft group…

There is a friend of our family, mid 60s cognitive issues, who has built up a support network via the church and also various sports they are involved in - they are seen as a positive person in the community who has given a lot and now there are very many people stepping up some contemporaries, some younger, one sibling, to provide support as it will be some time, if ever, before a care home is required.

This is hilarious, @Aintbaint
You’ve literally quoted my post, and then talked about things I never mentioned. I never mentioned a death “without pain, suffering, distress or discomfort”. I don’t know if that will be my fate, and I don’t spend much time worrying about it, but if that isn’t to be my fate, I can accept that.

I was explicitly clear (for the second time in the thread) that what I want for my death is quiet and solitude. I want to die alone.
I. Want.To. Die. Alone.
That is honestly more important to me than dying without pain or discomfort. I don’t expect you to understand that, but I do expect you to accept and believe that.

The thought of people sitting around my bed watching me in my final hours/moments is grotesque to me.

My fear of being alone in old age comes from seeing what became of them, my anger and resentment from the fact that they thought their money could be a down payment on me and others in the family stepping in to do what naturally would have been their children’s responsibility…. They were highly manipulative and controlling, throwing guilt on, one even had a log book of what they had contributed to their neice and family over the years….

Ultimately they expected their siblings family to step in and do everything because they paid for a few things and were leaving money.

The issue is with your families dynamics not people who are childless/childfree.

Don't project on to the CF because of your inability to walk away from manipulative family members.

@MaybeWhoKnew

Yes, they are also the first with the hand out for money after the passing.

@Claspsandgasps

This sounds absolutely mad.

I don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t be happy for anyone else provided they are happy with their choices.

And actually I was incredibly proud and happy for my relatives who didn’t have kids… and largely they were resilient and self sufficient until late 80s/90s.

My fear of being alone in old age comes from seeing what became of them, my anger and resentment from the fact that they thought their money could be a down payment on me and others in the family stepping in to do what naturally would have been their children’s responsibility…. They were highly manipulative and controlling, throwing guilt on, one even had a log book of what they had contributed to their neice and family over the years….

Ultimately they expected their siblings family to step in and do everything because they paid for a few things and were leaving money.

My grandmother cared for us in childhood, brought up our parents. The great aunts/uncles threw a few quid here and there and thought this entitled them to the same care as grandmother - it didn’t.

@Tahinii

Ours had the continence pads too. I can attest they do not hold severe diarrhoea.

We had the scenario where one of us had to get up at 6am to go and get one set of relatives sorted and to organise building work (needed adaptations, stairlift etc… took 2 months). Then they’d go off to work, I would do the morning shift spending time with the other one for an hour or so in between carer calls. Then I’d go to work. First person would come back and check on the first relatives… then I would come have a late tea, try and do some normal stuff before checking on both. Then sleep before invariably the nighttime phone calls of confusion would begin because one had dementia.

This was about 18-24months before they one by one went into a care home following a catastrophic incident where care home couldn’t refuse to take them anymore. We didn’t get a lot of sleep.

We did it because there was no other choice, the care available was insufficient and we didn’t want the people who had loved and cared for us to suffer anymore than they had to when they were frightened, lonely, distressed and vulnerable.

If I had siblings and neices and nephews etc maybe I wouldn’t have felt so strongly about having my own kids. And while I found no hardship in caring for parents and grandparents, I did find having to step up for aunts and uncles who’d chosen to not have children and having my life dominated by them exhausting. It was a step too far and beyond my responsibility.

I'm going to assume you're now deliberately trying to make infertile women feel bad, for reasons best known to you.