Page 11 | AIBU that working people should be rewarded in the Budget?

DistingusedSocialCommentator · 2024-03-03T23:04:17+00:00

As above by way of increasing the tax threshold which has been on ice for a while. The lower paid will benefit the most as those earning about 125k I think it is dont get any tax reliefe. 2 of the 3 children of ours pay 40% or more in tax plus NI. Therefore, the lower paid will benefit the most We left worl in our early 50's and yet to reach state pension age. I've read that many pensioners will soon be paying taxes as many are also being paid a few quid in private pensions they contributed to so rather than a penny or two cut, raise the threshold of income tax The gov must also do away with IHT but that is a different subject. *So if you agree with me, then it is I am being reasonable*

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 04/03/2024 10:16

LaurieFairyCake · 03/03/2024 23:30

Why have you left work with 18-20 years of work left?

Of course you should be taxed for that

What on earth are you talking about? Why should someone who is lucky enough to retire early be taxed for that? I'm 48 and I'd stop working tomorrow if I could

BIossomtoes · 04/03/2024 10:15

DistingusedSocialCommentator · 04/03/2024 10:09

That not certain ATM and that is a fact is it not?

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Of course it’s bloody certain. How much more certain can factually correct be?

Original poster

DistingusedSocialCommentator · 04/03/2024 10:13

RatatouillePie · 04/03/2024 10:08

Money doesn't grow on trees.

Since covid, there has been a HUGE increase of those on benefits, and over 54% of households TAKE more from the system than they pay in!!! This is crazy!!

83% of all tax is paid by just 40% of adults.

The only way to reduce tax is to reduce public spending.

Healthcare eats up the most money. The NHS needs an overhaul as far too much money is wasted on bureaucracy.

The next biggest spend is then pensioners social security (fair enough).

Then benefits for those of working age.

The priorities are all wrong. I know SO many people claiming benefits because they can, and they know how to play the system. It's awful. Whatever happened for gratitude for a helping hand?!

(and before anyone starts, I'm not talking about genuine claimants.)

Thank you. The only reason I did not post that is becuse you will get attacked even though you made it clear you are not posting about "genuine" people

NHS - I've always said no more money is required but to use the money more efficienetly

Re social housing - rents should rise by inflation rates

Reward those that work. Ensure benefits only go to genuine people. There will be mistakes in assessing but that is aprt of life and a good appeals, fair appeals sytem that is fair to those claiming and the taxpayers is in place.

Re tax allwoances, best way forward to massivley increase those.

Then do a bit more to ensure those avoiding tax when they should be paying it are caught and made to pay - often its the big boys and very rich people - but I know of small business that go 'cash in hand' that is tax avoidance when not declared.

OP posts:

QforCucumber · 04/03/2024 10:13

DistingusedSocialCommentator · 04/03/2024 10:06

You've misunderstood my point - possibly my fault. I'm saying or was trying to say that with recent state pension increases and just a few quid from a private pension, many pensioners that have even small private pensions other income will now fall into the tax trap. Therefore, personal allwances should be increased vastly. This will benefit pesnioners and those on low and or part time work.

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and many many people who are working now won't ever be able to retire, with autoenrolment widening its scope, this has absolutely signalled the death of the state pension - or at least a means tested reduction in it in a few years. DH and I are in our 30s, we wholly expect to still have to be working into our 70's - nothing to do with not being prudent, but all to do with our current NI taxes funding a much wider pool of people who need them now, housing costs and costs of sending children to uni etc etc.

Original poster

DistingusedSocialCommentator · 04/03/2024 10:09

coureur · 04/03/2024 10:06

@DistingusedSocialCommentator

"I beleive it will be removed or a promise to do this in the Autmun statement, IE dangling fake carrots to remain at number 10 along with the promises of tax cuts and doing away with IHT"

There's not going to be an Autumn statement. Parliament will be dissolved on 17th December at the very latest and it's likely that the election will be this year rather than January.

That not certain ATM and that is a fact is it not?

OP posts:

RatatouillePie · 04/03/2024 10:08

Money doesn't grow on trees.

Since covid, there has been a HUGE increase of those on benefits, and over 54% of households TAKE more from the system than they pay in!!! This is crazy!!

83% of all tax is paid by just 40% of adults.

The only way to reduce tax is to reduce public spending.

Healthcare eats up the most money. The NHS needs an overhaul as far too much money is wasted on bureaucracy.

The next biggest spend is then pensioners social security (fair enough).

Then benefits for those of working age.

The priorities are all wrong. I know SO many people claiming benefits because they can, and they know how to play the system. It's awful. Whatever happened for gratitude for a helping hand?!

(and before anyone starts, I'm not talking about genuine claimants.)

coureur · 04/03/2024 10:06

@DistingusedSocialCommentator

"I beleive it will be removed or a promise to do this in the Autmun statement, IE dangling fake carrots to remain at number 10 along with the promises of tax cuts and doing away with IHT"

There's not going to be an Autumn statement. Parliament will be dissolved on 17th December at the very latest and it's likely that the election will be this year rather than January.

BIossomtoes · 04/03/2024 10:06

many pensioners will soon be paying taxes

Just about every pensioner with an occupational pension is paying tax now. I certainly am.

Original poster

DistingusedSocialCommentator · 04/03/2024 10:06

determinedtomakethiswork · 04/03/2024 09:54

Pensioners have always paid tax if they earn over the tax threshold. Did you think they didn't? They don't pay NI though.

You've misunderstood my point - possibly my fault. I'm saying or was trying to say that with recent state pension increases and just a few quid from a private pension, many pensioners that have even small private pensions other income will now fall into the tax trap. Therefore, personal allwances should be increased vastly. This will benefit pesnioners and those on low and or part time work.

OP posts:

AsTheyPulledYouOutOfTheOxygenTent · 04/03/2024 10:04

How are you going to distinguish between "hardworking people" who pay IHT and trust fund beneficiaries?

determinedtomakethiswork · 04/03/2024 09:54

Pensioners have always paid tax if they earn over the tax threshold. Did you think they didn't? They don't pay NI though.

Original poster

DistingusedSocialCommentator · 04/03/2024 09:51

Alcyoneus · 04/03/2024 06:57

You are not wrong OP.

There are 10 million people of working age economically inactive in this country. Less than 50% are net contributors. One in eight young people are NEETs. The pool of those who are actually paying for everything is ever shrinking, which is not sustainable. At the same time we are importing low skilled Labour who bring economically inactive dependents with them, adding to net dependency. While they indigenous population chooses to have someone else pay for them.

The who system is a Ponzi scheme built on the back of a smaller and smaller cohort of people. There is no incentive for any net contributor to stick around. You can earn more, keep more and get better value for your money in many other countries. This government has surpassed all levels of incompetence and corruption. Unfortunately Labour will be worse.

Are we still allowing "At the same time we are importing low skilled Labour who bring economically inactive dependents with them," I doubt that very much

Its the high skilled like docs, IT specialists, and skilled NHS staff

I do however agree with the rest of your post.

Our lot - what will labour do to get the workshy into work - up their benefits?

OP posts:

Original poster

DistingusedSocialCommentator · 04/03/2024 09:47

PansyOatZebra · 04/03/2024 04:14

This. Sorry OP but you trust the tories more than labour 😂

Your OP is really badly written. Are you talking about the personal allowance? Or when 40% tax kicks in? If it’s the latter then those over £125k would benefit if this increased also.

I agree to an extent that fiscal drag has been going on too long as many people have been dragged into the 40% tax bracket.

It also makes me laugh when people are so against IHT when less than 4% of estates pay it…. And no it’s not being taxed twice because you can literally apply that argument to anything… eg someone paying VAT with their money which income tax has been applied.

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I've written as clearly as I could

Re personal allowance, that should be incrased to 14k as I said many hard working pensioners have private pensions. and are now falling into the tax trap

The IHT. As I said there could be lime of 3-5 million exempt - why should ordinary, hard-working people pay tax on tax on tax if they have worked hard and been prudent with their money?

Nothing against those who genuinely can't work but I'm fed up with many of those that don't own anything or close to it and are so in favour of IHT.

As I said, those earning over 100k I think dont get child benefits and if over 125k they don't get a tax allowance and 2 of our children are paying at least 40% direct tax plus NI. If two people are earning a joint 125, they will get the tax allowances and child benefits.

I also feel coucil rents should rise in line with inflation - why should the local taxpayers pay for it.

Back to personal tax allwance, these must be increased but IMO, it will all be BS, empty promises and if Labour got into number 10 - god help those earing 50k plus. If you pay coulcil taxes in full, watch them shoot up as well as VAT

OP posts:

Isitovernow123 · 04/03/2024 09:05

Possibly very controversial, but I think all income (including pensions) should have NI levied against it. When the system was set up, the average age of death was a lot lower than it is now, so the younger generations are disproportionately paying for the health care of the elderly.

borntobequiet · 04/03/2024 07:01

In this country many people seem to want a low tax/good public services regime. That isn’t possible.

Alcyoneus · 04/03/2024 06:57

You are not wrong OP.

There are 10 million people of working age economically inactive in this country. Less than 50% are net contributors. One in eight young people are NEETs. The pool of those who are actually paying for everything is ever shrinking, which is not sustainable. At the same time we are importing low skilled Labour who bring economically inactive dependents with them, adding to net dependency. While they indigenous population chooses to have someone else pay for them.

The who system is a Ponzi scheme built on the back of a smaller and smaller cohort of people. There is no incentive for any net contributor to stick around. You can earn more, keep more and get better value for your money in many other countries. This government has surpassed all levels of incompetence and corruption. Unfortunately Labour will be worse.

Alcyoneus · 04/03/2024 06:47

LizzieSiddal · 03/03/2024 23:06

The country can’t afford tax cuts. I’d rather have a working NHS, education funded properly and no shit in our rivers.

Where did you get the impression that yet more money will solve those problems? Taxation has never been higher and there has never been more spending in those areas. Yet….

PansyOatZebra · 04/03/2024 04:14

LizzieSiddal · 03/03/2024 23:15

I dont trust the Tories but I turst the Labour lot less as we were working people who have been prudent with our money and Labour does not like to see any workers doing well unless they in their club, iMO

What on earth are you talking about?

This. Sorry OP but you trust the tories more than labour 😂

Your OP is really badly written. Are you talking about the personal allowance? Or when 40% tax kicks in? If it’s the latter then those over £125k would benefit if this increased also.

I agree to an extent that fiscal drag has been going on too long as many people have been dragged into the 40% tax bracket.

It also makes me laugh when people are so against IHT when less than 4% of estates pay it…. And no it’s not being taxed twice because you can literally apply that argument to anything… eg someone paying VAT with their money which income tax has been applied.

Nat6999 · 04/03/2024 04:07

singleparentloseagain · 04/03/2024 00:50

I agree, children of single parents lose out again. I am in this situation as my partner passed away and we were not married. My kids will likely have to pay some IHT as my property may be worth just over the £500K mark (South). It worries me as I have a disabled DC and ideally I would like them to be able to stay in the house.
When my partner was alive, we were considered a couple for benefit's purposes. Yet, after he passed away I was told to fill everything in to say he was a bachelor and that I was no relation to him. We were together over 16 years and had 4DC. I was also told that I couldn’t claim any widows parents benefits as we were not married, this has recently changed.
Also child maintenance is disregarded if you divorce. Whereas, if your partner dies and leaves a certain amount of life insurance you can’t claim any benefits but in effect this is child maintenance as you can’t claim any, there is no disregard for this.

Edited

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Look on Moneysavingexpert.com there has been a change in the rules for bereavement benefit & you may be able to make a backdated claim, it now includes unmarried couples with children.

IloveAslan · 04/03/2024 03:37

LizzieSiddal · 03/03/2024 23:06

The country can’t afford tax cuts. I’d rather have a working NHS, education funded properly and no shit in our rivers.

I'm not in the UK, but our new govt. promised tax cuts - and are now scrabbling around trying to find other things to save money on. I feel exactly the way you do, give up on the tax cuts and fix the problems which need fixing if they have spare funds!

ThrowAFox · 04/03/2024 02:14

I'm not sure where the random italics appeared from!

ThrowAFox · 04/03/2024 02:13

It is still a cliff-edge, just a slightly less steep one. I agree though, that the one at £100k is worse than vertical: actually an overhanging cliff-edge where you end up worse off for earning more given that the marginal rate is over 100% in many cases! It's completely insane and any Chancellor with more than two braincells would fix that on Wednesday^ as their highest priority...^

Morph22010 · 04/03/2024 01:52

ThrowAFox · 04/03/2024 01:38

Yes. They need to make child benefit and the personal allowance and childcare funding universal again, to remove the cliff-edges. That wouldn't even be a cut to rax revenue, it would likely increase it. But would remove disincentives that are damaging the economy immensely, as well as being much fairer to individuals caught in these tax traps.

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Child benefit isn’t a cliff edge as if you go a pound over £50k you only lose a very small amount, although agree that the effective tax percentage between £50k and £60k for someone with a few kids is high. Tax free childcare at £100k on the other hand is a genuine cliff edge

Morph22010 · 04/03/2024 01:48

edwinbear · 04/03/2024 01:37

@Morph22010 it would be though. Instead of paying 45% on the current £12,500 allowance, you’d pay 45% on the new allowance of £15,500. Whereas now, you only pay 20% on the £3k between £12,500 - £15,500. Top rate payers pay their maximum tax rate on the personal allowance they lose.

You are thinking of it wrongly the actual amount of tax would not go up the loss of personal allowance would just cost more as proportion of that tax but the actual amount paid doesn’t change. So someone on £150k for example gets no personal allowance and currently they pay

20% on £38k
40% tax on next £75k
45% tax on rest.

if you put if the personal allowance to £15k it doesn’t change the above calculations they remain exactly the same

ThrowAFox · 04/03/2024 01:38

MCOut · 03/03/2024 23:53

They need to reform IHT because right now there are too many exemptions which mean that truly wealthy people don’t pay enough.

I don’t think we should be having tax cuts. If anything taxes should be increasing so we can increase public spending so that earners everyone else can enjoy proper public benefits. They do need to do something about the problems that hit earners between 100-125k.

Yes. They need to make child benefit and the personal allowance and childcare funding universal again, to remove the cliff-edges. That wouldn't even be a cut to rax revenue, it would likely increase it. But would remove disincentives that are damaging the economy immensely, as well as being much fairer to individuals caught in these tax traps.