Aibu to wonder why private schools produce more "well rounded" children? Is it the school or the parents?

I don't think my Oxbridge, state educated DC got that memo.

Reading your link it states some igcse exams were easier. Some were harder and some were the same.

This is also found between boards setting GCSEs.

Not sure what the overall point is

However, when posters say that they send their kids to private schools because they want them to be happy/develop confidence/learn good manners etc, the clear implication - unless they qualify their statement very carefully - is that they assume that children in the state sector are somehow less happy/less confident/lacking in good manners etc. And once you have accounted for socio-economic differences etc, I really don't think that's true.

Presumably you don't actually know that it's not true on average though. I don't know for certain either, but I have taught in both sectors and it wouldn't surprise me if it were true. Sire, there are some things about some private schools that make some students unhappy. But some of the problems in a LOT of state schools at the moment are pretty much bound to make quite a high proportion of students unhappy.

I'm sorry to say that in terms of manners, respect and courtesy there has been an enormous gulf between the normal state schools I've worked in and the independents. Imo there is no point in discounting socio-economic differences, since thise are a large part of the reason people choose private schools.

Our kids went through / are in some of the top London day schools, St Paul's etc. I don't think they're any more 'well-rounded' than the average teen. I think though, that the schools do something that normalises a certain type of confidence. Public speaking just seems to be something they do. Also, there are very few (if any) children who can't look adults in the eye or feel st ease to hold a conversation with adults, this kind of thing. Like a social ease. DH and I were state educated and can see a difference in very general terms. Obviously, this goes too far in certain cases 🤔but on the whole they're fine. Despite this, I still believe parents have far more influence on 'roundedness' than any school. I can't really speak for boarding schools though, that's a whole separate matter. I can't speak for state schools today either, as ours never went to them, but if we lived outside London they may well have done. It's very area-specific. A family member's children attend an amazing state comprehensive outside London - pastorally, academically and in terms of facilities. It really depends. In general though, independent schools don't have put up with disruptive behaviour, so they don't. Also, the more selective a school is, the easier the job of teaching is because you're not presented with a class where some are aiming for 9s and others will barely scrape a 4 if they're lucky. So they all move at the same pace and high standards are normalised. The independents in London are very international, lots of ex-pat 'high flier' families, so this also affects the general atmosphere and expectations.

And there it is again. I don't support the blanket nastiness about privately educated kids, but I don't accept the ridiculous characterisation of state school kids either.

In this example, "kids in private schools get to discover and feel proud of their talents and grow in confidence" while state school kids are assumed to have to "just keep their heads down to get through it". And state school kids are supposedly less "polished" as a result!

It is absurd and offensive, frankly.

If you're happy with your child's private school, that's great. Just say that. I'm genuinely pleased for you. You don't have to make up a load of nonsense about the state sector to justify it. Believe it or not, there are loads of kids in the state sector who get to "discover and feel proud of their talents and grow in confidence" too.

Private Schools don't have to stick to the National Curriculum

And they don't have to enter them for accredited qualifications. Students in maintained schools have to sit GCSEs and level-1/2 certificates offered by the BTEC boards, which are regulated by Ofqual. Private schools can enter students for IGCSEs, which are not regulated and in many cases are not intended for use in the UK. There is no guarantee of equivalence of standard/grading between the qualifications. Universities that have minimum GCSE requirements are expected to accept IGCSEs as equivalent without question, and are threatened by organisations of private schools if they suggest state-school students are having to meet higher standards than their private-school counterparts (I've been on the receiving end of this.)

https://ofqual.blog.gov.uk/2019/04/04/some-facts-about-international-gcses/

OP I think it’s both - our DC did state for primary & private for secondary, and we’re seeing them gain confidence in themselves from the opportunities to eg join an orchestra, prepare and give a talk to other kids in a lunchtime club, have interesting conversations in PHSE lessons because they split the class of 23 into 2 groups for that so that everyone can get involved in the discussions. There is disruption and messing about in the classes - more than we expected when we chose the school - but there’s no fights or feeling scared of the bigger kids in the same way there is in the state secondaries nearby, and I think that all combines to mean kids in private schools get to discover and feel proud of their talents and grow in confidence rather than just keep their heads down to get through it. I think that’s where the polish comes from.

We will have to agree to disagree on this point. I think the attacks on privately educated kids are often more shameless and explicit, but the assumptions made by state school kids are just as bad and just as ignorant.

Private Schools don't have to stick to the National Curriculum and are better resourced. Their pupils have access to facilities & support that most state schools don't provide.

The divide has actually gotten worse, especially for arts and languages.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves exactly but that PP thought that it was fine to call private school kids names.
I 100% agree with sweeping generalisations on either side aren't good however on these posts it is usually the opponents of private schools who fire the first shots with no thought behind their statements. It is seen as acceptable to attack the character of private school kids in a way that isn't acceptable for state educated DC.

Of course not, and I don't condone ridiculous generalisations about privately educated kids either.

However, when posters say that they send their kids to private schools because they want them to be happy/develop confidence/learn good manners etc, the clear implication - unless they qualify their statement very carefully - is that they assume that children in the state sector are somehow less happy/less confident/lacking in good manners etc. And once you have accounted for socio-economic differences etc, I really don't think that's true.

I think parents should do whatever they sit for their children, but blanket generalisations about children in either sector aren't usually helpful.

It's interesting that the last Duke of Westminster sent his kids to the local comp, but what they do extracurricular means they have everything public school kids have anyway. And I doubt he'd have chosen that if the local state school was in special measures.

Depends whether you judge the value of education to be results/destination or whether you value the journey. We value the journey and DDs enjoyment of school
I don't care what she does as a job as long as she is happy.
I don't want return on investment other than her happiness.

Yeah, it would just be cheaper is all

Why? All I want for my DS is a good work /life balance. The private education was to ensure he had the same start as I did in the state system 40+ yrs ago. We had strong teaching, firm discipline and lots of extracurricular opportunity such as free music lessons, school orchestra, well funded and organised sports opportunities. But most of all no one was constantly whining about the state of the building, school policy, funding the list is endless. The school was in poor repair and we often had to wear coats during lessons in the winter. But teaching standards were excellent.
My DS’s school had the same feel as my old comp. Yes they were both middle class but that was due to the closure of grammars two years before I started and no real private alternative. The only local private was where the middle class thick kids went if they failed their 11+.
Times have changed and selective private schools or grammar schools now skim off the brighter middle class in a lot of areas.
Many of us have lost confidence in the state system. Mainly because it is much easier for children to not reach their potential. There is no place to hide in a private school. Their success relies heavily on results so it is not in their interest a to let pupils slack.
That said one of the benefits recently was during the lockdowns DS received a full education to GCSE level. School went online for every lesson. Regardless of their GCSE results ( guesstimated) they completed the curriculum. Which for me is as far more important than estimated results.
There is a real concern in higher education that DD’s cohort will struggle at undergraduate level because their education over the last 5 yrs was intermittent and often incomplete.

Well op has said state school kids are over weight

How would you react if I called all state pupils antisocial chavs? Would that be an acceptable thing to say?

Indeed. I’d say it is not acceptable but somehow, it is ‘allowed’.

😂🤷‍♀️🙈

Only on private school threads is it acceptable to generalise and call kids unpleasant names based on the decisions of their parents.

I don't think this type of comment is accurate or helpful tbh.

I know lots of privately educated kids. A few do have a very entitled attitude but the vast majority don't. I wouldn't describe any of them as snowflakes. Honestly, they are just very ordinary kids with strengths and weaknesses like any other kid - no better and no worse.

How many do you know?

I wouldn't describe any of kids I know in private schools as well rounded. They are entitled snow flakes in my view.

Of course there are nice kids in state schools.

Manners and behaviour are heavily influenced by the parents, I think. The behaviour at our local state school is impeccable... mainly down to cohort imo.

Kindly stop clouding the issue with facts!