Aibu to wonder why private schools produce more "well rounded" children? Is it the school or the parents?

Well I speak to them and ask them questions about their backgrounds. I also teach on topics where social mobility is relevant so it comes up in class discussion a fair bit.

Private school educated children tend to come with an air of confidence sometimes (not always) arrogance that gives them away a belief in themselves that is installed in private schools sadly their privilege is not always acknowledged and often ignored

I can tell a private school child a mile off my ds (he is aware how lucky he is as this has been taught to him by myself and his dad) and his school friends all like to think they are London street boys but there is just something about them that gives them away. He has friends from all schools in the area they all hang about together all dress the same all have the same big hair but you just can pick them out

bless their cotton socks

I know a number of people who were privately educated and I wouldn't call all of them well rounded. Reclusive, odd maybe.

I'm calling bollocks on this. How would you know which of your students were privately educated? Do they wear a sign?

Couldn’t agree more about behaviour being a key issue. Moved my child to private due to the incredible levels of violence in the state school (lauded as one of the very best schools in Scotland). In the private school, in a 60 min lesson they are taught for 60 mins. In the state school in a 60 min lesson 1/3rd of the time would be spent sorting out the disruptive kids. State school kids are only getting 2/3rds of the education private school kids get. That is the main reason that private schools get better results and the kids are happier.

How do state schools address this? It’s very straightforward. Bring back permanent exclusion and pupil referral units and don’t be afraid to use them regularly. Oh but that costs money!

I apologise for not having read the whole thread - I sometimes like to just answer the OP without the influence of other pps.

I've worked in state and private schools, and I'd say the 'roundedness' and other characteristics of children is hugely, hugely a result of parenting, and this cuts both ways - it can be good or bad. I've known lovely families at state schools whose children would be a credit anywhere. I've also known what I call 'underprivileged rich children' at private schools where neither parent has the time or interest in the child. School isn't a substitute for parenting, and I know that some of the saddest private school students' parents expected the school to make up the deficiencies in their role - but this isn't possible.

Yes, private school students usually have more opportunities in terms of activities and clubs, and these activities will often do more ambitious projects - such as overseas sports and music tours. This is all great, but I wouldn't worry about the lack of elite sport or choir tours to Venice necessarily - they are the icing on the cake.

What I do think private schools do is to largely eliminate the disruptive element in classes, which is incredibly advantageous to all the other children! They won't tolerate crap from anyone - they can't, because the parents who are paying £30K a year won't put up with lessons being disrupted. I so wish more state parents had that attitude! Even though they're not paying fees, if they marched on the school with pitchforks when their children's classes were being ruined by disruptive children* it would shake things up a bit.

*Disclaimer: I know that disruptive children are so for a reason and that they need to be provided for. But I think the whole system which allows lessons to be disrupted on a regular basis has got to change.

My parents were very poor. They moved from East London in search of better opportunities for their DC (better schools). Both left school at 14 without matriculating.
Despite never having been to “formal dinner parties” they taught us good table manners just in case. I went to my first of these aged 36! (It was an industry awards one).
I believe it was because WWII was a great leveller: my DF had served, so was eligible to go on to study (as long as he pursued a career in teaching), so he rubbed shoulders with all sorts of people when in the army and at college.
We were read to, encouraged to read widely ourselves from a young age, had BBC Radio 4 on all day (no TV) and got taken to local opera, concerts and ballet from a young age, discussed world affairs and News Etc. on a daily basis.
Every parent has the opportunity to better themselves and therefore, better the lives of their children.
If a parent’s expectation is to spend each moment playing Candy Canes on their phone while their DC get on with their benign parenting, they will have fewer opportunities than the kids whose parents engage and provide these.

That's odd. I am a university lecturer and have absolutely no idea what schools my students have been to. How can you know?

This is a great point. I find children who are taught in difficult surroundings from the get go in primary with social problems around them fare better. They learn to adapt quickly and be flexible that life isn't always perfect. As you say, more resilient.

Paying privately doesn't equip children with these real life skills. Life isn't always perfect.

The research I read (admittedly some years ago, but a really big study) found two factors contributed most to children’s educational outcomes:

1. stable home life
2. well behaved and motivated peers in their class at school.

1. Money
2. state v private
3. going to a school with an excellent reputation
4. the teacher

Children at private schools and grammar schools are more likely to have the top two.

If, by well rounded, you mean something unrelated to educational outcomes, then I expect it also amounts to the willingness of parents to pay for clubs and music lessons. You can get all if that in the community, but private schools provide it onsite. Where I live the kids at private schools who get into the A teams for sport also do county level sport after school and at weekends. The musical kids have parents who instilled a practice routine as well as paying for lessons. The keen riders spend their entire weekend at the livery yard volunteering. It comes down to parents setting an example if making an effort. I know children who I consider to be well rounded and well mannered in both the local state school (which doesn’t have a great reputation, but us in a man area without much deprivation) and a variety of independent schools. They all have lovely, engaged parents.

Anecdotally the level of academic support students in the 6th form receives varies wildly school by school. Friends with teens at private school get way more assistance with NEAs than our kids but it varies state by state too. Makes me think contextual offers are fair to level it out.

DC state educated, loads of opportunities to learn outside of school with residential trips, excursions etc. Lots of music related stuff in our case. It's the parents. Without drive from parents, children don't succeed in life.

I lecture at university and find it's the private school students who struggle with the independent nature of the work. I think they've had such small class sizes and such support for so long they find it challenging to be one out of 500 and expected to just get on with the work. The state school students are far more resilient.

It’s the parents. Yes the private schools have all the facilities but the parents need to research it, invest in it, facilitate it, encourage it and fund it.

time and time again I wonder about the parents of some DC at my sons’ schools. The DC don’t do any of the incredible music, drama, sport (of which there are about 27 options) on offer and the teaching is similar to a state school: why are the parents paying £20k a year for a swimming pool, sports psychologist, 30 groundsmen, artist in residence in the school art gallery….none of which their Dc use.

and then all the top musicians and sportsmen/women all have extensive lessons and club commitments out of school: they often can’t get to top of the field just by relying on the school offer. All of this hugely reliant on parent facilitation.

Lol, yes plenty of state school kids end up at "formal dinner parties!" as daddy celebrates his latest hedge fund bonus.... now which knife do i use for the 1st starter?

Private educated children just have soooo much more opportunities than most state school children.

Might be better to have a more rounded general population than just be happy that only 5% have these opportunities?

Depends what you mean by "well rounded"

But generally, the sort of thing you're talking about is much easier to achieve with money.

Well, it was, as mentioned, in no particular order!
Table manners are important though. If you are able to behave normally at a formal dinner, you won’t be judged by the upper classes😉

So speaks someone who clearly hasn’t spent much time in private schools.

I love that you’ve put table manners at no 3!

Goodness, what a very narrow-minded view.

I don’t know what prep school is but assuming it’s a primary aged school? My village school takes the kids swimming, sailing, horse riding and they have music and dance lessons and a variety of sport options. Mine did archery for a term. They have a choir and chess clubs and karate etc. I think to assume all state and all private schools are the same is unfair and inaccurate. I don’t for a minute think our school is the only state school in the whole of England that does these things.

OP said ‘well rounded’, which is very different from an ‘all rounder’!

I’m really just relaying my own experience- that my DCs do all the classic ‘well-rounder’ activities at school and my friends with kids at state mostly have to arrange them outside school. So I’d say that they work harder to facilitate all those things than I do.

Also, whilst obviously no 2 schools are the same, isn’t it pretty universally accepted that privates usually have more specialist teachers, do more sports, have more clubs on offer and will prepare leavers for 11+ and/or common entrance (in the case of preps and not all-through schools)? Yes it’s an assumption but I’ve toured all the local mainstream state and private schools and I don’t think it’s a massively inaccurate one. I’m obviously not referring to specialist SEN schools or Steiner schools or anything. Just your typical private prep!

But of course free to disagree with me 😀

I have 2 kids in private prep so I was not talking from a position of ignorance. You @InTheRainOnATrain are making HUGE assumptions that the private prep options are all the same. They are not. And the outcomes are not the same either.