Aibu to wonder why private schools produce more "well rounded" children? Is it the school or the parents?

That's why I sent my 4dc (entitled to fsm) to private secondary schools. Dd3 is currently doing her gcses and is expecting 9s in them all. The school want her to try for Oxbridge- her 2 elder dd are both Cambridge graduates. We have always been very working class but we value education.

@ShyPearlMoose
"every prime minister since WW2 has attended Oxford?"
This is irrelevant. We are talking schools, not universities.

"Last year, private school children made up 33% of Oxford offers, despite private schools taking up only 6% of all schools."

This statistic is skewed. The comparison should be those from private schools that got top grades, and those from state schools who got top grades.
Those at state schools include those who have special needs, those who are not so bright, as well as the academically bright.
The only person I know who attended private school, failed his 'A' levels, and after a few years in a mediocre job, has not worked since. (not worked for over 15 years).

"concerted cultivation parenting (high involvement),"
In this case, I think the parents just sent him to an expensive private school to abrogate any involvment themselves... to leave everything to the school, which obviously did not have much affect.

I'm currently at university studying education and writing a dissertation on this topic.

Private school = high social class usually
These kids have an advantage in terms of social and cultural capital (connections and general knowledge), concerted cultivation parenting (high involvement), access to resources. More money = more time to focus on your kids, get them tutors, work on homework etc. Better school = better teachers, facilities, accommodations etc.

The difference in achievement is only made more noticeable when you study the disadvantages faced by working class children. Natural growth approach to parenting (laissez faire), low social and cultural capital, economic status, taught defiance towards the education system. Nearly half of children eligible for free school meals don't pass 5 GCSEs.

Private school kids are the most privileged of all so of course they will be viewed as the most 'well-rounded' of children in comparison.

Did you know that private school kids are 5 times before more likely to attend Oxford university and every prime minister since WW2 has attended Oxford? Last year, private school children made up 33% of Oxford offers, despite private schools taking up only 6% of all schools. Private school kids earn significantly more than their state school peers by age 25, despite being outperformed in exam results. Education alone does not define success, powerful parents play a huge role.

But every parent thinks their own kid and their pals are the bees knees! I could wax lyrical about my state educated teen dds who are kind / funny etc.

Money buys opportunity, privately educated kids are likely to have had more opportunities - is that what you mean by well rounded?

I have had two very well rounded privately educated young men digging out the bamboo,that had invaded my garden, today. My son and his best friend. They are both at uni and DS has recruited his best friend to help him with the physical work and I’m paying them both.
They are brilliant company, love to chat and have worked pretty hard today.
They were joined by their third member of their trio via FaceTime. We had a lovely chat and they decided, finally on their holiday destination. After failing to sort out a holiday with a larger group of friends they have decided on Scotland for a few days.
They are lovely gentle souls, who are all rugby players ( the big ones in the scrum) are polite, fun loving and have helped DS through a difficult couple of years ( DH and I both faced life threatening health conditions - both ok at present). I will be forever grateful to them for being there for him.

They are all country gents but without the arrogance that you see protrayed. There were a lot of farming families at DS’s school, they are definitely well rounded hard working individuals with a great sense of fun and adventure, they are exposed to so much more than the average child. DS’s friend spent his Easter break lambing, but is studying law at uni and enjoys a normal social life. He has to help with his parents’ businesses and then rolls up a couple of times a week to help DS.

The last thing private school children are is ‘well-rounded’ but no paying parent is EVER going to admit that…

Parents care, as in all the parents care enough to be paying so they will care about other aspects of their life too or buy in services to help them. There's exceptions of cause, but overall. Plenty of state educated parents care too and they turn out ok but there's an underlying problem with parents not bothered about education

Oh dear - sorry for typos! The sixth-former wasn't a 'boyo'!! And there's an apostrophe missing on school's charitable activities. Too early in the morning...

To state the bleedin' obvious, all independent schools are different - just as state schools are. Some are fashionable with the super-rich, some are more low-key, some highly academic and some not. Also - not all are boarding schools.

The one I worked at had nice, regular non-arrogant boys - in fact, in the guide book (can't remember what it's called now) to independent schools, the reviewer remarked 'Not a Hooray Henry in sight!'. It wasn't one of the premier league and the boys were more under the influence of their homes than the rigours of boarding school and most were delightful, courteous and even humble! They were very into the schools charitable activities and I remember a sixth-form boyo boy getting very tearful when his (over ambitious) plan to raise money for the charity was turned down by the head on H & S grounds.

Must repeat a joke which (once - maybe not true now) was supposed to characterise the products of 3 top public schools:

At a formal dance, the Etonian asked for a chair for his girlfriend. The Wykehamist (Winchester College) humbly went off to get one and then the Harrovian sat on it!

@Kenthighst
"But private schools churn out well rounded kids so aibu to wonder if it is the actual school who produce these kids or is it parental input?"
This is such an over generalisation!
So, no private schools do not churn out well-rounded kids.
There are good and bad private schools, and good and bad state schools.
But also, each child is different, so what school benefits one child, may not be the right school for another child.
Then some children have a lot of parental involvement (private and state), and some children have zero parental interest (private and state)
The one person I know who attented a private school (from age 9), is certainly arrogant, but is out of work, and definitely not well-rounded.

@LlynTegid "My experience of those who were privately educated when at university was that there was a great variance, some who were confident and went on to success, and others who were emotionally limited."

Insightful comment.

Ah, I clearly didn’t read it properly. I prefer it as a ranking order, though - much more amusing!

Exactly. There are confident/ shy teens at all strata’s of society and at all types of school - much depends on parenting / innate character. One friends teen Dd is mute with shyness I’ve barely heard her speak the other friends Dd is head girl of her school and will take over the world. Former private latter state.

Not unlike those who went to State school IOW

i was privately educated at a very good school whilst a few have done exceptionally well quite a lot have had very average careers,
a few in acting/music which feels very middle class.

My experience of those who were privately educated when at university was that there was a great variance, some who were confident and went on to success, and others who were emotionally limited.

Having taught in all types of schools, I can absolutely assure you that the state school teachers are working their arses off- it’s generally much easier to teach in a private school and the hours are much shorter!

And some of her teachers are amazing

Yes the bare minimum 🙄🙄🙄 dd predicted a star a a at a levels currently working her socks off. The bare minimum. How dare you.

My two go to private - I think a mix of both. I just want them to be kind and good kids. The kids in private have so much on offer in terms of extra curricular. They do encourage the kids quite a lot as compared to the state schools some of my close friends go to - things like debate class, choir with the opportunity to sing in Westminster A etc etc. The parents also have to do quite a lot to encourage this - we spend a lot of time driving them here there and everywhere. I cannot tell you how many hours I’ve spent watching recitals etc. I don’t hear of things like that being pushed in state. I have a niece who works in a state school and she does as best she can but she says most of the teachers just do the bare minimum.

Squishwallow · Today 13:18
Well I speak to them and ask them questions about their backgrounds.

Ooh - I'm not sure I like the sound of that! Is that OK with them, or do they feel uncomfortable, especially if you ask them in front of other students?

I would have hated a lecturer to ask me about my background at university, not because I was ashamed of it, but because it's personal information and, yes, people do tend to label or stereotype you.

Squishwallow · Today 07:24
I lecture at university and find it's the private school students who struggle with the independent nature of the work. I think they've had such small class sizes and such support for so long they find it challenging to be one out of 500 and expected to just get on with the work. The state school students are far more resilient.

That's interesting! But I think it's a massive generalisation.

Yes, I get what you mean in the sense that, once the playing field is levelled at university, some privately educated students who possibly benefited from the small class sizes and more contact time with teachers will fall back a bit.

But I don't think it can be true across the board. I remember a documentary where Andrew Neil (state educated, working class background) investigated just what it is about public schools that seems to give students, esp boys, an advantage in life.

He spoke to students at a number of schools but the interviews he had with Eton boys were very telling and the boys were very perceptive about their situation. He asked why so many politicians etc have come from Eton and one of the boys said 'We're expected to organise ourselves from an early age, and to organise our clubs and activities to a great extent, so I suppose we feel we can do anything'. So, in their clubs, the masters took very little part - the boys did much more than would be allowed in a state school, especially when it came to things like organising speakers or visitors for events.

I know this was true (but not to the same extent!) at the independent school I worked at for a while. This gave them huge confidence, especially in dealing with people of different ages and generations. Of course there are other, obvious, factors at play too, but I think the expectations of boys at places like Eton force them to raise their game.

The being able to “spot a private school child” is utter hogwash. Dd2 is at state and socialises in a mixed state / private set no way you could tell who goes to which school. The only teens dd2 has experienced unpleasantness from is public school boys. The kids from normal private schools she has found are lovely as are public school girls.

I'm surprised because my 4dc have all been or are at private schools (3 are adults now) and I've never felt they were spoon fed. Admittedly my elder 2 dds' school was pretty bog standard and neither of them struggled at Cambridge where the terms were very intense and they were expected to do a lot of self study. I suppose there is as much difference between different private schools as there are between different state schools.