Aibu to wonder why private schools produce more "well rounded" children? Is it the school or the parents?

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying, conflating 'wealthy' parents with 'parents who put their children through the private education system'. There is an overlap, but the former do not have to 'scrimp and save' which we are constantly told many parents have to do give their children 'the best start/life chances etc' through private education.

My point is that if you are not 'wealthy' (and I am talking about aristocrats, politicians, TV presenters, elite sports professionals, celebs, successful actors, writers, business people and so on - all of whom do have children in University from time to time!) the post-HE opportunities for your children are not dramatically improved because you put them through private education. It is family wealth that gives University leavers more opportunities. Many of the wealthy students are not striving for first class degrees, because it doesn't matter, they are there for the University Experience and to 'mix' with 'the right' people.

You can get huffy and personal, but that is what almost 30 years in the sector has shown me. I am not bothered who sends their children to private school - we considered it, as I say. But if people are struggling and sacrificing to pay the fees in some hope it will result in an automatic pass to success, that isn't the case.

Late to see your post @Kenthighst I personally think its about quality 1 on 1 time kids get in private schools.

I sincerely wish Id sent my kids to private school, my DH didnt believe in private education, so we didnt. But had we, I am sure both would have had a better foundation esp given they were both bullied at state school which just weren't equipped or bothered to deal with it.

I worked in private ed and the kids are delightful.

Sorry, don't know what happened to formatting there.

There are many perceptions here based on limited exposure to different environments, kids and experiences.

I consider myself lucky that I've got, arguably, more insight than most.

I'm a teacher who has taught in private, grammar and comprehensive schools.

Personally, I attended a local state school in Scotland. It was ok. I was involved creatively in a few groups but had only about an hour of PE a week. One public speaking event over the whole six years (which I lost sleep over). No drama offered. Not much confidence or faith in my own ability to give things a go.

However, having taught in some comp schools, which are on their knees in every sense, I consider myself lucky.

My husband earns well. There was zero deliberating over education as a result and we pay for private. I do feel a hypocrite as I believe decent education and opportunities should be par for the course for anyone. Yes, private schooling perpetuates class divide. Yes, it isn't fair. Yes, it exposes the kids to less of the real world.

But after my last ("good" Ofsted rated school) experience, having been told to "drink a pint of cm", "suck cck" and had a dictionary thrown at my head, been in tears when they were jumping on desks throwing bags, and had y8s laughing that they'd "broken" another cover teacher, I am done. I now refuse to teach in anything other than a private school, part time, where I am supported and where education can be prioritised and teachers aren't fire fighting.Parents have no idea the sh*t that goes on in some schools. And I know I am a good teacher with firm boundaries, tolerance, humour and empathy. It took a long time for me to stop berating myself and realise this.

Incidentally I did "win" over every kid in that last school I taught and the parents were upset when I left. But I shouldn't have to dig into the depths of my soul, cajole, humour, discipline, beg, anything to make them pay attention, in every single lesson. My mental sense of balance is more important to me.

So my kids are all in private as I refuse to take the risk over disruption and kids that don't give a sh*t. And I can see them grow in confidence far more than I did at that age, every term.

Wow I really hope you don't teach if you have these narrow blinkered view of all private school kids/parents.
I thought Universities valued critical thinking and investigation?

For what it is worth...

I work in a Russell Group University.

More confidence than state school students - yes.
More 'well rounded' - no.
More likely to join societies - yes.
Harder working/higher achievers - no.
Better tech - yes.
Less mental health problems - no.

We could afford to send our children to private school but it gives no 'advantage' at our level of socio-economic status. It was also lovely to experience family time (holidays, activities) as they were growing up, rather than 'sacrificing'.

As they have got older we have managed to start saving some decent house deposits for when they are ready. They do not know this though!

One has graduated, completed a Masters and is working in a professional, well-paid job, with frequent travelling, so not ready to settle yet. One is graduating this year (Law) and has a graduate scheme secured. One is finishing the first year of 'A' levels and is already looking at Universities with a career path in mind (medical).

All went to the 'average' state school/post-16. But yes, we value education, and consistently gave support, which we felt was more important than private education.

It's not private school that gives children the 'privileged edge' in terms of post-education life opportunities. It is, quite simply, wealth.

Do you think wealthy parents send their children to private schools to work towards first class degrees? It is about 'who they mix with'. They don't need to 'do well' academically. Often, those students are there purely for the 'University experience'.

All my dc are very bright and received full scholarships. Scholarships cover uniform, essential equipment eg ipad, school dinners and subsidised trips. It has still been difficult as travel is not included - ds cycled the 10 miles each way to save money.

Out of curiosity how can you afford to send 4 children to private school and be entitled to free school meals?

Things are opening up for sport though I hadn’t played a particular sport for years since I was at (state) school rejoined via an online club thing and it’s brilliant fun great mix of women. No idea what school anyone went to!

I think the point is not who wins at regional sporting events, but who trounces who for Russell Group university places. Do you know what % were gained by your local grammar?

It's the money

I would think it's being away from all those well rounded parents they have . Didn't do much for Johnson though 🙄.Maybe it was just a step to far .

True, you can also get a bursary which varies depending on your income.

Both, simply put. With perhaps a little more emphasis on the parents, who can usually afford to fund all the activities that make a person "well-rounded." To give one example, many of the people on my public school tennis team (myself included) had only taken up the sport in the last couple years. When I transferred to a private school, most of my teammates had had private lessons for many years and were obviously better equipped to thrive on the team.

Why don't you start one OP? What's the point in going on and on. My DD as at an independent school but we do lots of clubs outside school. She also used to do a virtual debate club which we paid for outside school.
In addition to this we pay for additional swimming, tennis, horse riding, hockey, netball, acting, singing, piano all outside school. There are other things she does at school as well.
We also have a few clubs at our school facilitated by parents during their free time. We have lots of parents who also volunteer at the school. I don't understand why state school parents like OP don't do more for their child's school.

I haven't RTFT but I would disagree that private schools necessarily produce children that are any better-rounded. A lot of private schools emphasise academic achievement (for the Oxbridge applications) and I've certainly known private school kids who saw extracurricular activities as a waste of time. Those same kids have grown into the sorts of adults who will tell you employers don't care about a single one of your non-academic / non-career achievements. I've experienced this first hand. There are plenty of ex-private school adults who are savagely competitive and will undermine someone else's achievements if it makes them look lacking.

Yes there will be private schools that encourage well-rounded individuals and offer a lot of opportunities that their state counterparts don't have the funding for, but this is by no means all private schools. And plenty of state school children do Scout badges, D of E, a sport and / or a musical instrument.

I am not sure were yu are getting this from OP.All my dc went to the local state grammar school.They would trounce the local Indepedent schools at sport fixtures and competitive music festivals.Of course way better academic results too , but I guess you would expect that from a selective school.

That was cool but shows your kids were also highly intelligent and motivated to start with.

I had a scholarship as a kid but it only covered fees. Not travel uniform extras etc. if my parents had been really skint then they wouldn't have been able to afford all these extras.

In fact my dad did pull me out after my parents split but that was for a different reason ( very left wing and to spite my mother)

Wow. Round here scholarships are more like marketing tool you get say 5% off the full fee.

Full scholarship which also includes free school dinners and uniform.

Dunno. Some of the kids I see from state schools are well round. Often seen eating crisps and chocolate lol.

Presumably a bursary?

every prime minister since WW2 has attended Oxford?

Neither John Major nor Gordon Brown attended Oxford.

How did you manage to pay for private school with an income low enough to get FSM?