Do career women get more kudos than part-timers/sahms?

It's because in my experience and most of my friends, it's harder to work full time with kids than be a sahm .

I think that's an entirely reasonable position. You're happy with your own situation because it works for you and your family. You're not seeking validation from anyone else.

This seems to me to be a much healthier attitude than those who complain about "being undervalued". Nobody should be relying on approval from others for their own sense of self worth.

Kudos isn’t something I really want from the outside world. Appreciation from my own family, yes.
I’m a single mum, ex isn’t around and I don’t have much support. I work full time in a demanding (not well paid!) role. Colleagues with partners often tell me they don’t know how I do it all. I don’t feel proud of myself when they say it. I feel shame because I can’t do it all. I think about the state of my kitchen, or that the kids haven’t done much at half term because I had to work. I’d love to work pt and manage everything better, and would swap that for the odd nice comment in a heartbeat. But I have to provide.

I just don't understand why someone would need 'kudos' for looking after their own children, cooking food which they are also going to eat and cleaning their own house. Especially as working parents also need to cook, clean etc and obviously look after their children when they aren't at work.

for many years I've done primarily school helping readers , costume making, bonnet making , parent helper on trips

when i was a sahm for 7 years… i never did any of this! 😂

Honestly I just don't care about kudos or approval from other women, I'm still home even with my youngest now in secondary school because our family works best with me home doing everything here and helping 2 sets of elderly parents and dh earning the money . I don't have less value because I don't do paid work , for many years I've done primarily school helping readers , costume making, bonnet making , parent helper on trips and now helping 2 sets of parents with their lives . My value isn't in a job it's in the person I am 😊

In my case I do as she stays home while I work from home . Your example is just valid for 3 years or thereabouts and serves to actually emphasise how bad maternity leave is in the U.K. and how bad childcare is , but as you probably know now , once you get home all the meals , plans , activities etc are there to be done .

I'm really sorry that that happened to you, and can see how that background might shape your thinking on this.

Do you have daughters? If so, think about what you want for their futures. Do you want them to be the default carers or do you want them to have a balanced relationship in which all responsibilities are shared equally and in which they have opportunities to pursue their own career ambitions?

And if you have sons, do you want them to be the carrying the burden of being solely responsible for supporting their families, or do you want them to have equal opportunities to bond with and care for their children?

Are you currently modelling the division of labour that you would want for your own dc? If so, that's great. If you would want something different for them, think about how you can tweak your current situation to get closer to that.

It's normal to get kudos for doing something that's regarded as an achievement, or as something not many people would be capable of doing. Looking after your own child and doing the housework don't fall into that category, but neither does the mere fact of having a job.

I think the problem is not the amount of kudos, but the division of domestic labour between men and women, and the fact that it's still unusual for men to ever be the default parent. We shouldn't need to go on the defensive by painting basic parenting and household tasks as impressive achievements or high-level jobs in order to justify being part time or SAHM.

I think full time high flying women get more praise the way that full time dads get "awed" at in th playground. Men don't get a pay on the back for working like women don't get it for being a SAHM.

Tryingmybestadhd · Today 15:10

As they should ? Everyone that achieves a good career should be given kudus IMo , specially mums as it’s so much harder .
As much as I appreciate SAHM , working mums do everything they do plus work full time on top . Unless you are talking about the very minority who sends their kids to boarding school or has live in help or a partner that stays home and does the child care part .
Most full time mums still do housework , childcare , and pretty much in charge of most responsibilities

Not true unless your child is school age though.
I used to be a SAHM to twins until they started school BC childcare would have cost more than my wages. I can honestly say working (almost) full time with kids at school is easier (for me) than being at home with 2 toddlers.
Obviously you're not doing the same as the parent at home with the kids if you're not there.

kudos from who? mumsnetters? 😂

Im a grown assed woman. i work part time (and my children are at secondary school gasp!). Bloody love the balance. And have never ever noticed even a whiff of feeling inferior against friends and family females working full time. Tbh i often listen to the lives of friends with full time career and feel my heart rate increasing listening to how frantic it all sounds!

Of course, the CoL crisis is impacting negatively on families in many different ways.

I do think it's time that we started pushing back harder though on this idea that women are expected to be the "default parent". Men are perfectly capable of stepping up and doing their fair share if they want to. The trouble is, a lot of them don't seem to feel that they should have to, and many women seem to either agree with this or at least be resigned to it. I honestly don't understand why.

I think "part time" covers a very wide range. Technically I work "part time" at 32 hours a week. But I work every day and do all school runs and kids clubs etc, working around them. So no lunch breaks for example and early morning / evenings to catch up.
It's quite different to someone who for example works 1 morning a week.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves

🌺

I have done a lot of work to break the cycle. I know that my view on this topic is shaped by own internal monologue. Growing up my worth was measured by how a cared for others. My mum died when I was 2, as the youngest and only girl. I became the surrogate wife and mum from a very young age. I was 'lovingly' called cinders.

Those who prioritise their children’s development, teach boundaries and manners etc. (whether they are working parents or not) should be applauded.

No, sorry. This is ridiculous because raising a child to become a civilised and productive member of society is actually the least we should expect from parents.

But then, I'm childfree, no fucker has ever given me kudos for anything. Apparently I'm not worthy of celebrating my success because apparently it was easy for me as I didn't have kids. Nah, bollocks to that.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves

I think you're right. A happy and loving home will always trump any variation of the family structure.

It is undoubtedly a complex issue. I think with the col crisis now and less money impacting everyone, this is undermining home stability. Thereby impacting child overall health. As women tend to be the default parent, the col crisis impacts there lives more in terms of less job opportunities which pay significantly less.

I'm sorry to hear that, @Sparklybutold. Hopefully you have been able to break the cycle with your own dc, and in time, you might start to value what you have managed to achieve after what was obviously a difficult start in life.

As they should ? Everyone that achieves a good career should be given kudus IMo , specially mums as it’s so much harder .
As much as I appreciate SAHM , working mums do everything they do plus work full time on top . Unless you are talking about the very minority who sends their kids to boarding school or has live in help or a partner that stays home and does the child care part .
Most full time mums still do housework , childcare , and pretty much in charge of most responsibilities

www.doria.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/186210/vatt-working-papers-151-paying-moms-to-stay-home--short-and-long-run-effects-on-parents-and-children.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Here's the Finnish research paper

But there will be just as many studies that demonstrate that children do better with two working parents. As you yourself have already demonstrated with the Finnish study.

I don't think the research will provide a definitive view on this - you can easily find studies to support either point of view. My own gut feeling, from what I've observed, is that it makes no difference either way. Loving, happy and effective parents typically produce better outcomes for children, whether they work or not.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves life's circumstances meant I became the default parent. I am also estranged from my family with significant childhood trauma, which I know all has contributed to my life decisions including my sense of self worth.

I think part timers are the most praised but i know that their life isn't automatically great and that they still get comment but its not as much as Sahm primarly or career women secondarily. This is from my experience as having been all three (not just mat leave sahm) and from observing and hearing from other women.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves

I won't post here, but a quick Google search for the benefits on the kids living in a home with a sahm are plentiful, but as linked below, the finish story doesn't support this?

A lot of the kudos relating to anyone's career come from promotions/pay rises/job changes - things people have studied or worked hard to achieve. There's a notable achievement beyond the usual day to day work.
I have heard people complaining about it the other way - complaining that pregnant women get congratulated and fussed over when they're going off on maternity leave and it boils down to the same thing, a notable achievement/event to celebrate.