To say that the next generation is primarily screwed in terms of resilience

My dad was an evacuee, 10 or 11, separated from his parents, placed with one sibling, 4 other siblings sent elsewhere, miles away from home in Devon. Aged 14 he started a 5 year apprenticeship, war was still on but he got on and did it.
To blame COVID for a kids lack of resilience is a nonsense. Too much time spent on devices, that are given to kids at too young an age has caused half the problem. They're exposed to material way beyond their maturity but we always make excuses and wonder what went wrong. As soon as mental health is mentioned, the world has to back off. It's a get out of jail free card for some

In the time that I have been alive, the same messages have been constantly fed downwards towards kids from teachers and another authorities that they have to work harder than physically possible; they probably aren't good enough; they need to think harder about everything and plan more for all eventualities; misfortune can be strategised against; and somehow suddenly it seems to have gone in and they are absolutely paralysed by it. I think the role models of all the people who don't do this and basically everything turns out ok have gone away somehow, all the dads who get paid although they take a piss a bit have had their jobs replaced by robots; all the mums who did a nice little part time job because they were being supported by those dads are all working flat out and strung out

@SheerLucks that too - whatever you do, literally whatever, it will never be enough, so what's the point

When I was a kid you tried things and if they didn't work out, you could just walk away. you could do a job in a shop or something and just leave if it didn't work out. you didn't have this digital thing following you around where everything felt so permanent. you never had to admit to anything at your next "interview" (which was basically you just showing up and asking for a job at the right moment). Loads of kids fucked up their exams and retook them. Coursework wasn't a thing before GCSEs so you could revise the week before and do alright. Or - if not, you could just do a job which didn't need tons of qualifications. you were expected to fall out with some people and not be friends with everyone. You didn't soul search if everything didn't go right, there was such a thing as a shit day. now you are supposed to ask yourself: what part did I play in that?

My daughter cries because she has too much work to do it all to a high standard; and she sometimes forgets not to be cheeky and the teachers tell her off. When I was a kid I never did all my homework; and kids just expected to get told off and the teachers were accepted as natural enemies with unreasonable expectations. Now we have somehow persuaded them to internalise adult values and they are too young and it's too hard.

So it isn't surprising that if you set all this up AND say "but on the other hand, if you have MENTAL HEALTH issues...." some of them - who are honestly feeling pretty terrible about it all - are going to be having mental health issues

I also think, much like the Japanese situation, that there's a "what's the bloody point" attitude going on here.

I live in a city in the south east and rent for a tiny studio flat is almost £1000 per month; two beds are around £1600 per month, many of them quite shitty from what I've heard. It's scandalous.

Young people are meant to spend their academic years striving so they can enjoy the fruits of their labour when they exit...into what now?

It was so different when I was a 20-something in the 90s - I didn't even go to university but had an ok job, lived in an ok rented two bedroom flat with a boyfriend in a trendy part of town but, crucially, I was out probably four times a week - twice to the pub, twice clubbing and also ate out once or twice a week.

So many young people I know of have decent jobs, actually earning comparatively more than I was, and they're sharing crappy accommodation with friends or partners that is so expensive they can't really afford to go out. A Deliveroo once a week is a luxury.

Younger people, who maybe have older siblings in this situation, must be thinking the parental home is a sanctuary that they want to hang on too for as long as possible.

It's incredibly sad and so very bleak.

Surely a lot of this has got to be down to parenting? It takes a lot to teach life skills
to DC. It takes time, effort, consistency, determination and a refusal to do shit for them (or have someone else do it) because it’s just easier. Resilience IMO
comes from parents consistently modelling resilient behaviour.

I think it's really tempting to use some kind of "mental health" excuse when the stakes are so high. I don't blame kids who do it - I think two things are interacting here (obv this is just a totally unsupported opinion, based on my memories of youth and childhood in the 80s and 90s; my sense of how things are for my kids at secondary school now; working with lots of young first jobbers at work) -

1 - mh stuff is not stigmatised like it used to be
2 - other forms of "failure" are much more to be feared now standards (in everything) are so high and there is nowhere to hide from them

Being challenged and put under some stress is in fact good for developing healthy mental resilience.

Totally agree with this, which is why I said children should at times learn how to deal with feeling a bit uncomfortable. Parents are doing their children no favours at all saying that teachers cannot ask them to answer questions in lessons, speak in a group etc. I can’t believe the amount of children I teach now that I’m not allowed to direct question towards. Some parents just want any kind of slight stress or uncomfortableness totally removing, but that doesn’t help the child to learn how to deal with these feelings.

Unfortunately I think you are right. The 'mental health' card seems to be used when some young people -and some of those in their 20s too- just simply dont want to do something and are looking for an excuse. Being challenged and put under some stress is in fact good for developing healthy mental resilience. And as for demands to remove anything from sight/hearing/activity because it causes them offence...!! FFS No one has the right not to be offended (except where actual law is broken) nor demand that because they are offended that they have the right to cancel/silence the offending view.

Beautifully worded. Made me laugh, thank you

Yep I’d agree with this.

I work for a large multinational company and regularly recruit ages 22-30. There are some great ones, but also a huge number who are just not interested in being uncomfortable when they do not know things so throw the towel in.

Curiosity, interest and any willingness to work to what they want seems to have disintegrated through the generations, and it is hugely concerning. If it’s not instant gratification or if it makes them feel like they may fail then a lot just don’t want to know.

It makes me sad, as a lot are really going to struggle to find their place in life through lack of self belief or interest.

For those saying that there was always people struggling in the past. This is undoubtedly true. Anxiety is far from a new emotion. The question is are we actually making things better the way we are handling it.
Lots of people are in therapy or drinking too much to deal with their problems so that points to older generations also having MH issues. However, is it actually better that there are so many young people who stop going to school, won’t do exams because of their anxiety.
People working in schools and universities for last two decades are finding that the numbers looking for accommodations for anxiety is rising and was a trend before Covid.
As a society we do owe it to our youth to question if we are doing things right and change course if necessary.

@givemushypeasachance has provided the link to the Japanese descrition of this withdrawal of young people and it really does seem to tally with what's happening in the UK. Here's an excerpt which I think describes what we are also seeing in our young people:

"The dominant nexus of hikikomori centres on the transformation from youth to the responsibilities and expectations of adult life. Indications are that advanced industrialized societies such as modern Japan fail to provide sufficient meaningful transformation rituals for promoting certain susceptible types of youth into mature roles. As do many societies, Japan exerts a great deal of pressure on adolescents to be successful and perpetuate the existing social status quo. A traditionally strong emphasis on complex social conduct, rigid hierarchies and the resulting, potentially intimidating multitude of social expectations, responsibilities and duties in Japanese society contribute to this pressure on young adults.[34] Historically, Confucian teachings de-emphasizing the individual and favouring a conformist stance to ensure social harmony in a rigidly hierarchical society have shaped much of East Asia, possibly explaining the emergence of the hikikomori phenomenon in other East Asian countries.
In general, the prevalence of hikikomori tendencies in Japan may be encouraged and facilitated by three primary factors:

1. Middle class affluence in a post-industrial society such as Japan allows parents to support and feed an adult child in the home indefinitely. Lower-income families do not have hikikomori children because a socially withdrawing youth is forced to work outside the home.[35]
2. The inability of Japanese parents to recognize and act upon the youth's slide into isolation; soft parenting; or codependency between mother and son, known as amae in Japanese.[36]
3. A decade of flat economic indicators[when?] and a shaky job market in Japan makes the pre-existing system requiring years of competitive schooling for elite jobs appear like a pointless effort to many.[37] "

@Ohanotherflippingcold totally agree.

I would say the cuts in funding are having huge repercussions. Schools have had to cut funding for pastoral services to the bone. Hats off to those still in the education system propping it up, as it is broken 💔

I agree OP, having worked in education with pupils and parents. I saw one reason being parents allowing children to opt out of things that it was perfectly normal to be worried about. This worry is now called anxiety. I'm talking about tests, speaking in front of class, school trips, sports day etc. It's done children no favours at all.

I come across many mothers making appts for their 20 somethings who apparently can't do it because of anxiety even though they're at uni.

I suspect all these issues did exist back in the older days. However we didn’t label them, they weren’t widely talked about, people didn’t make reasonable adjustments and everyone was just told to get on with things. Also people with chronic mental illness were often institutionalised along with all the disabled children and adults.

Nowadays everything has a label, research has been done as to how best manage things, people talk about things and share more with each other, people are more confident is saying no, people are more confident at asking for adjustments. The research and awareness means more is picked up at an earlier age and therefore interventions are put in place at an earlier age.

My dad retired in the early 1990s in his 40s after a breakdown. He saw a psychologist who also diagnosed OCD. The psychologist told him how to manage things for himself and ignore his family complaining if it didn’t fit in with their way. He was encouraged to be fairly selfish to look after himself. I’m not sure the same approach would be used these days. Potentially he would be offered medication and more options - he refused any medication and any CBT attempts fell on deaf ears. Now he would be almost forced back into the workplace in his 40s with a label to his name and a list of reasonable adjustments that would need to be made for him. Many of these things would likely be things he tried asking for and was refused as no one had any rights or protected characteristics so discrimination was high. Oh and I also suspect nowadays he would have got an ASD diagnosis as well - back tracking during assessments for younger children more recently leads me to believe this as well as working in the field. When he was at school, any kind of not being able to take part in something wasn’t accepted and you’d be caned at school or by your parents for refusing to go to school or take part in certain lessons.

I imagine after the war, those who survived combat would have been hiding a multitude of mental health problems such as PTSD. I know my late grandfather would never talk about his time in the UN which we later found out involved clearing out the concentration camps. My ex’s grandfather did talk about how he was a prisoner of war at one point but we never got much more out of him. That generation were just so glad to have gotten out alive that their mental health wasn’t really considered as so many others had life changing injuries.

I am a parent and I also teach children with severe disabilities and complex needs. I don’t recall coming across many young people like those I teach when I was at school. Likely that they were institutionalised. If not then hidden away at home and definitely not sent to school.

I think all these issues have always been around but they’ve been deeply hidden into recently.

My 15 year old DD is one of these children. She can’t make a decision, she can’t go out on her own, she has crippling anxiety, the smallest thing upsets her, she is constantly overwhelmed. She was diagnosed autistic last year. It is easy to judge but I can not tell her to toughen up or get on with it. She is extremely ill and taking a tough stance would definitely not help. I wouldn’t have really understood either if I wasn’t experiencing this. The worry for me is huge. I constantly think what her future holds. I don’t know why so many children are like this now, but it is very strange. I completely believe that you are seeing hundreds of cases now in your school. And it is a massive concern.

Haha did you see the other thread about the apparent astronomical rise in people who stink and don't wash themselves. 😂😂 Thankfully I haven't noticed this maybe I'm noseblind because I'm one of the stinkers???
I'm in my early twenties and can confirm that the vast majority of my fellow agers aren't curled up in a ball at home afraid to go outside, unemployed and having panic attacks every time someone looks at them. I mean I'm sure there are people out there like that but they're rare as they ever were and I hope they get the mental help they need tbh.

Another thing I find strange about Mumsnet is the claims that the world is more fucked than ever because of wars and that's why kids in this country are going crazy. Are these people aware that there's never been a time when there wasn't wars in other countries 🤔 we had America invading Iraq and Afghanistan in the 00s, yugoslavia in the 90s etc etc. Threats of nuclear annihilation in the cold war. And don't try and argue people didn't have phones back then so didn't know about it they still had TVs

Maybe it's increasing, but the withdrawal from school/work/life isn't new or unique to young people here. It's been a recognised social problem in Japan for decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori

It's really not nice to mock someone with a severe mental illness when it sounds like you don't actually know them personally.

The only people who should be deciding the severity of someone's mental health is a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist.

My sisters BIL is 22,never had a job. Lives at home and spends all day in his room on his computer. He is coddled though by the sounds of it and is the youngest. He has "crippling anxiety " and barely goes out albeit to a little shop around the corner. Cushy life if you can get it, but he's fucked if parents move/when they pass away.

Or maybe there is a bit more nuance as to the pros and cons of growing up in different eras. I'm in my late 40s now, very much a child of the 80/90s, so no mobiles or social media, lots of outdoors play, most teens had Saturday and summer jobs, there were options of youth clubs/brownies/scouts etc, less exposure to junk food, property was affordable and one income could maintain a household, you walked or cycled to most places and were trusted from a young age to use public transport and yes you did not have to check in with your parents every 5 mins and that was fine so long as you were home for dinner/ or before it got dark. Conversely racism was rife, god forbid if you were gay, nuclear strike and AIDS public information programs terrified you, teachers were still prone to physically assaulting you, bullying at school 'was just one of things' and was solved by fighting back, going through puberty was still rubbish and any kind of understanding of mental health issues was limited.